LAF Life (Living Alcohol Free)

Boundaries Ep.10

April 04, 2022 LAF Life Season 1 Episode 10
LAF Life (Living Alcohol Free)
Boundaries Ep.10
Show Notes Transcript

This episode will leave you with lots to think about! We dive into some of the most common types of boundaries like;  Personal, Physical, Emotional, Financial and the Non Negotiable. When people are drinking they have zero boundaries which is scary because boundaries are detrimental to our mental health & well being as they help define who we are. They outline our limits and are built from the foundation of our core values. Boundaries are something we all find challenging to implementing into our own lives.  Ask yourself, what boundaries do I have and which ones am I struggling to put in place for myself?

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**Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this episode are not professional or medical opinions. If you are struggling with an addiction please contact a medical professional for help.

Music provided by Premium Beats:
https://www.premiumbeat.com
Song: Rise and Thrive
Artist: Young Presidents

Resources:
Wellness Togethe...

[00:00:00] Kelly: Welcome to the laugh life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze-soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, Mike Sutton, and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories.

[00:00:26] Kelly: We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support. 

[00:00:42] Tracey: Hello everyone. And welcome to the LAF life podcast. This is episode 10 and today we're going to discuss boundaries. Now this one I'm not sure about everybody else is a very hard one for me. I think it's very hard for everybody to set boundaries in their life, personally, professionally, and in every area of their life. Hi guys. Who wants to tell me about their boundaries today? 

[00:01:08] Lindsey: Well, I think boundaries protect, and it's a way to take care of yourself, right? It defines who you are and also who you're not. 

[00:01:17] Tracey: Yeah. So, I think it is directly related to your values a lot of times, 

[00:01:21] Lindsey: for sure. Yeah. 

[00:01:22] Tracey: I think everybody's probably grown up with different boundaries set in place by the people that raised them, their families, and that we kind of learn from there. We also learn boundaries from things like the education system. We learn boundaries when we go out to the work world and there are different in every place you work. And I think this is how we all establish them kind of for ourselves. 

[00:01:44] Lindsey: Yeah. And also, one big thing for me, which I'm working on and I've identified is taking on too many things. So when you are the say yes to everything person or you do something for somebody, and then you've got those feelings of resentment and anger either during it, or after, it builds up kind of when your limits are pushed, that's where I'm like, okay, people will just keep piling stuff on you, unless you're like, no, I can't do this. Or even not even if you can't it's okay to not want to as well to protect your own mental health. So that's something that I'm working on. 

[00:02:24] Tracey: Being able to say no is a big thing, but I think if you are a people pleaser, if you're an empath, I think we're very bad at making boundaries and keeping boundaries with people. And definitely I am guilty of that too Linds I take on way more than I should sometimes or need to. And then you feel overwhelmed, right? 

[00:02:46] Lindsey: For sure. Overwhelmed and anxiety to the max. 

[00:02:50] Tracey: Yeah. And then also you're burned out or your energy is drained and then it's hard to when you have so much on your plate, find the time to recharge and recoup, right? 

[00:03:00] Lindsey: Yeah.

[00:03:01] Kelly: Yeah, boundaries, definitely something that I didn't even, I don't even know if I had even heard that term when I was drinking. So, this past four years has definitely been a way for me to look at, you know, where I need to put boundaries. I had none in any area of my life when I was drinking. I was just kind of like flying by the seat of my pants and living this super intense, no boundary life. I can relate to what Lindsay said there with taking on too many things, even just with work, for example, I'm, self-employed, I'm in an industry where I can make as much money as I want if I work hard enough. So where, where do you stop? Like I had not totally yeah. I had no boundary around that, I've learned a lot about boundaries, and I've learned that it had, does create so much more peace in my life and less anxiety and healthier. Relationships healthier connections for sure. 

[00:03:58] Tracey: Yeah. You're not really good to anybody if you're just totally depleted your energy. Right. And it's not a good statement to put yourself out there, show to people that your kind of like a doormat 

[00:04:10] Lindsey: no kidding. 

[00:04:11] Tracey: So, I'm learning that myself, or I've learned that in my more mature years and I'm learning that a lot at work. I've always had a challenge at work to taking on too much and, and I'm a manager, so, you know, I've had to learn to delegate more, but also putting in those boundaries because I'm a very. Laid back, nice person. And that can be easily taken advantage of sometimes. I've definitely had to put boundaries in place to let people know, like, no, you know, I am a nice person, but I'm not a doormat. And I can say no to things too and have the right to do so and still be a good person. 

[00:04:48] Lindsey: And I think if you don't have healthy boundaries or your boundaries are too loose, sometimes people think, what are the signs of that? How does that feel? And I think a couple of things are you get too involved in other people's problems you want to fix and solve it and you want to help people. You find it difficult to say no to others and other people's requests of you overshare personal information things, problems that with your family and your own relationship. I know there are some people that, love to do that, put it all out there in the open, but then, if you decide to stay in the relationship or something like that, like you can't take that back. So, you've got a. Navigate that, and also seeking to please other people because of the fear of rejection and not being liked. So, I think if you're feeling some of those things or you've encountered that, that might be a sign that your boundaries maybe need some attention. 

[00:05:44] Tracey: Right. What about you, Mike? Where do you struggle with boundaries?

[00:05:48] Mike: Can we not talk about my current love of donuts? No. All kidding aside. I think for me, I definitely needed to set boundaries with the way that I let my life roll out and having to go out and drink Like four nights a week, sometimes weekday nights and then the weekend. It was always about, well, I gotta go, cause I don't want to let that person down. Or I don't want them to think that I don't like them. Here we are for me two plus years later, I thought, holy cow, well, a waste of time, because there was a lot of times that I didn't want to go. But I always went because that little stupid voice was not working with me at that time. But I think, having a clear, mind with, not drinking, it definitely opened my eyes to the things that I was doing. That weren't good for me, that led to things like. Bad mental health or, bouts of depression, because I think that what I have had depressive moments now that I sit back and I haven't had it for quite a long time, certainly not since I stopped drinking I just think that those times were in some way my intuition or my internal guide saying, you just don't like the person you are and you need to, make some changes. If you want to find out who you really want to be or who you, who you really are. And boundaries are definitely a good point in how that connects. I think I started too slowly just. Not go out for three, four nights a week. It was maybe two nights a week. And, once I saw that people didn't really give a crap if I was there or not. And then you start to see those people slowly fall off the radar or off the map. It's better for you. I think anyway, I mean, less is more, I don't get it, 75% of the texts I used to get on the daily, and it's great. It's really awesome. I've learned to be comfortable with myself, so. Yeah. 

[00:07:32] Lindsey: I think one thing I've learned when someone presents you with something like, and I used to do this all the time with drinking all the time, I'd be drinking wine with a girlfriend and then we'd be, or she would be like, let's do this tomorrow or next weekend, let's rent this cabin or let's go here and there and I'd be like, yeah, that's awesome. Let's do it. And I would commit to doing something in that moment, in that state of mind where your inhibitions are completely gone out the window, you're not taking into account what you have going on. And then the day comes or it's like the night before you're supposed to go do the thing you committed to doing. And you're like, oh shit, I don't have the time. I don't want to know what, now I'm the person that flakes and, and cancels. And I don't want to be that person either. I was, I really struggled with that. 

[00:08:21] Kelly: So now the people pleasing part of 

[00:08:25] Lindsey: yes. And now it's like, okay, wait a second. You want to do this on this weekend? I have to get back to you. I don't want to just right away, because I'm, I naturally do that. Yes, let's do that. Yes. I want to do that. Yes. I want to help you move. Yes. I want to do this. Yes. I want to go for coffee with you after my workout, yes. And no problem. But then it's like, oh my God, what did I get myself into? And it's not like, I don't want to see that person. I'm just like, I physically am. So, I'm tired. I'm mentally drained. And wow. I think something that's helpful to implement healthy boundaries is when you're presented with something, get back to the person on it. Let them know, like I really want to, but I just want to make sure that I'm not over committed, and I'll let you know and give them a deadline or something. 

[00:09:10] Kelly: That's awesome. And even being okay. If you do commit to something and then change your mind being okay with saying no, I changed my mind.

[00:09:19] Lindsey: That's so good being okay to say no from the get-go. When somebody, when somebody presents something to me face to face, my knee-jerk reaction is yes, it always is even at work. But then I'm like, even if I don't want to do it, even if, while the person is talking to me about it, I'm like, oh fuck. I don't want to do this.

[00:09:39] Lindsey: I'm like, yeah, sure. No problem. Oh, why 

[00:09:42] Tracey: Y you're natural. Yes, girl. 

[00:09:45] Mike: do you think people pick up on that about you. 

[00:09:49] Lindsey: I don't, I don't, that's a good question, Mike. I never, that's getting me to think really differently. I never thought about that before.

[00:09:56] Mike: I think manipulators are just, they have this instinct of, oh, there's one, there's one. There are a people 

[00:10:02] Lindsey explains my last relationship. 

[00:10:06] Kelly: That's so good. I love that because I've worked hard on this boundary’s thing for four years and I can honestly say it's very rare that at this point I do anything that I feel obligated to do and don't want to do so it's a, that's like we were saying before we started recording, it's a practice. It's just like a muscle you get stronger and stronger. So, there's people, I found complaining, like, I didn't want to be around people who complained anymore. And a boundary that I learned was not to feed into negative people. So, oh, somebody that, yeah. So, somebody that complains a lot, I think it's natural to be like, oh, the weathers shitty. Yeah. It's so shitty, you know, and complain about things like that and let them complain to you. But if you stop that, if you just don't respond to that kind of thing, those people will stop coming to you they'll find somebody else to complain to. 

[00:10:57] Lindsey: You're defining who you aren't when you set that boundary, you're not somebody that perpetuates complaining you don't participate in it either. It's easy to go down that road and I think complaining much like human. Unites people like people can relate. People love getting together at work or whatever and complain together and just be negative. But if you have that boundary where you're like, no, you know what, like let's just change the subject. Or 

[00:11:25] Tracey: there's a reason they say misery loves company, right? So, and like energy attracts as we've already discussed too. So negative energy attracts negative energy just as positive energy will attract positive energy. 

[00:11:40] Kelly: That's right. 

[00:11:41] Tracey: So, boundaries to me too, is a lot about reserving your own energy 

[00:11:46] Lindsey: so good Tracey 

[00:11:47] Tracey: when you're committing to things that you don't want to be doing or spending time with people, you don't want to be spending your time with that's energy, that's being drawn from you that you may not necessarily have because we all have a lot of things in life that we're dealing with that we're responsible for. I was having this conversation with my girlfriends last night. Like Mike was saying too, I'm going to point my life. And I have them for a few years now where I have a handful of girlfriends and those are the girlfriends that I really put the effort and the time into seeing and staying in contact with, I have a select few other ones that I do time to time. And we'll see a couple of times a year and that's great, but my core girlfriends are the ones that I know are like my ride and die people and they deserve my energy. They're good energy. They're easy to be around. And they've been a huge part of my life. So yeah. Yeah, I think that's, really important and hopefully a lot of people as they mature get to that point in their life that they start doing that. But another thing we were talking about was boundaries with family.

[00:12:59] Lindsey: Oh boy, 

[00:13:00] Kelly: I got; can I start? Yeah. Go home. Okay. So, I've got a couple of things with this. Well, I can talk more on this later, but I've created a lot of boundaries with my phone. But one of the things I've done with that is I don't have notifications. Like it's not on vibe. It's not like I don't hear my phone unless I say to somebody, call me later or call me in 20 minutes, then I turn on my thing. Okay. So, I had maybe six months ago, one of my kids was trying to get a hold of me and I was in an appointment. And it was about a 30-minute appointment. It wasn't long, but I did not have my phone with me. And he was mad at me. He wanted something and he kept texting me. Like I probably had six texts with him and, you know, afterwards I got back on my phone and I, it, maybe it was once I saw him face to face. Yeah. I said, do you know if that's your expectation of me that I'm always going to answer a text? Like within the next 15 minutes, you're going to be disappointed. Okay. 

[00:13:56] Lindsey: That's your child, right? Oh my gosh. I remember a conversation. This has nothing to do with, I mean, I don't have kids, but with a dating, like Kelly, you and I have had these conversations. I'm like, I texted this guy and said, good morning, and it's been four hours. And he hasn't sent me anything back. And you're like, so that's the limited Linds that's like how long it takes. And then you're mad if you don't get a response in four hours. And I'm like, oh, you know, like, I don't know, like that triggers me. I'm like, well, he's just, you know, not putting in the effort and isn't you know, responsive and doesn't communicate well, but then you're like, well, what if he just has really good boundaries with his phone? 

[00:14:37] Kelly: Oh yeah, 

[00:14:39] Mike: he's working. 

[00:14:40] Lindsey: But if he's working. Yeah. I mean, and that's the thing. A lot of people are texting and using their phone while working 

[00:14:47] Kelly: and some aren’t, and some can.

[00:14:50] Lindsey: Right. 

[00:14:50] Mike: I definitely want to comment on this because I'm a, obviously the opposite sex as you are. So, I think so identify, you've made a good point and it's not an excuse or anything like that yet. Have we become a society of expected reflect Kelly? For child work, mom, why are you not getting back to me? It's like shit. Before cell phones, we had to wait to get a response. I mean, come on. But if someone's working, how authentic of a conversation are you going to actually have at the person, it's like a ping pong match back and forth, then next thing you know it like, what'd you really learn about the person? I would rather have an hour long zoom convo or a phone call or a face-to-face with somebody as opposed to mindless texting, because this is my biggest pet peeve about texting when people, and I say this in general, because men and women do it. They love and certain tone. They love and certain kind of say that's not what I was saying. But you you've got ahead and you 

[00:15:56] Lindsey: interpret it, 

[00:15:58] Mike: but that's the way that I set it, because you think of the way that me, we may engage prior to the text that will, that's who Mike is or that's who so-and-so is. And he must be saying it like that when really, then you got to backpedal and you've got to try to explain yourself and it's like, oh, I don't believe you. Okay. You don't believe me. Okay. Well, that's fine. And then what happens? A fight ensues. And then it's just, it's hogwash, it really, really is so dangerous. Let's just say, if you genuinely liked this person and then what, because they didn't get back to you in four hours, like Kelly said, it's like, what's your boundary? Right? Maybe if it's continual that you've had a conversation with it, fine. And your, a title don't get me wrong. It's, you're entitled to feel the way you want to feel. But I think my comment for in general to everybody to say, come on, People got to work, people that kids and people who've got the gym and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why do we have to be expected to respond back? And they listen and I'm not saying I'm perfect. I've been guilty of these things too more so even when I was drinking, it's like, ah, I need a drinking partner where the hell are you? Right. 

[00:17:05] Kelly: Right. Okay. So can I get back to the with family. So, the other thing I was gonna mention and I would love to hear your it's a, this is a work in progress for me. I have a family member that and I also think boundaries is deciding who you want in your life and who you don't want in your life. And this is somebody that I definitely do want in my life. So, I've had to set some really clear boundaries to ensure that my mental health is good. And this person doesn't respect my boundaries. So, this is a really tough one for me to navigate. I stick to my boundaries. I do. But it's a, every few months it's like this person forgot what my boundary is. 

[00:17:46] Lindsey: I was going to ask that Kelly was going to say, what does disrespecting a boundary look like 

[00:17:52] Kelly: saying, I only want to communicate with you in this way. And then they reach out in another way and expect something else from the, from what I just ignored what I said, like, this is the only way I'm going to communicate with you because I need to take care of my own mental health and then it gets ignored. Ooh, 

[00:18:11] Lindsey: that's a tough one. 

[00:18:13] Kelly: No, that's not, no, 

[00:18:15] Mike: that's not an option.

[00:18:16] Kelly: No. 

[00:18:16] Mike: Okay. 

[00:18:17] Tracey: I think then you have to ask yourself, Kel, are you willing to compromise your boundaries? Yeah. 

[00:18:24] Lindsey: Be true to wit and be consistent with it. Right. You know, it might feel annoying or tedious, but I think the longer you're consistent because this, this person looking to sort of manipulate you into doing what they want to do. I think the longer you are consistent, and you stay true to your boundary, you're not getting away with that crap, like 

[00:18:46] Kelly: right. And that's exactly what it is. This person wants something different than what the reality for me is. So that's yeah. Thank you. That's super helpful. Thank you.

[00:18:55] Tracey: I think if you're honest and you keep reinstating your boundaries, 

[00:19:00] Kelly: right.

[00:19:00] Tracey: And you've been honest and upfront with this person to why you have those boundaries and why you need them personally. Because clearly, it's you that are requesting them and need them, not the other person. I mean, if you're willing to be annoyed by that person, continually doing what they're doing and reinstating your boundaries every time. Well, then that's the compromise or sacrifice you need to be able to make, to carry on a relationship with the person. And hopefully one day it sticks and point. 

[00:19:33] Kelly: Yeah, no, thanks you guys. 

[00:19:35] Tracey: Yeah. 

[00:19:37] Lindsey: Even, oh, somebody an explanation of why you need a boundary or why you're implementing one. I don't know. What do you guys think about that? If you're like, I need to be communicated with, or I have to talk to you this way by this means, and they keep wanting to do it another way. Do you have to remind them, do you have to give them an explanation? Why. I don't know that even if you do know, 

[00:19:59] Tracey: I think it's a courtesy, if someone's asking or they don't understand why you can't just off the hop, say to someone while we want you to communicate with me this way, and if you've communicated with them other ways prior to that, of course, they're going to be like, well, why, what did I do?

[00:20:14] Kelly: Right. 

[00:20:14] Tracey: So, in that circumstance, I think you have to communicate clearly why you need those boundaries in place. Past that once you've initially told them, and if they're not respecting it, no, you don't need to give them an explanation after that. I don't think 

[00:20:30] Kelly: right. That's good. You guys. 

[00:20:32] Lindsey: Yeah. Just be consistent with it because I think letting it slide even one time, like that leads to confusion and.

[00:20:40] Tracey: Well, and you don't want to compromise yourself or your values if we feel strongly about it, then you got to stick to your guns. But like I said, you could also be in a place where it's like, if that person keeps, I know with this particular person, it's not the case, Kel cause you want to maintain a relationship with them. But if it was someone who you weren't as concerned about the relationship, I'd say, if somebody keeps breaking your boundaries, then you come to a place where you have to be a decision of, do I want this person in my life or not?

[00:21:09] Kelly: Right? Yes. Yeah. 

[00:21:11] Mike: Don't feel guilty. That's all that's no, 

[00:21:14] Tracey: yeah, you're right, Mike.

[00:21:16] Mike: That's how you want to be treated not treated, but there were other relationship works best for you and that's about like, that's it. That is a clear-cut boundary 

[00:21:24] Lindsey: for sure. 

[00:21:25] Tracey: Yeah. So, I had a bit of a boundary issue in my life too, with my daughter, because prior to being with my partner now, I didn't have a lot of boundaries for my daughter. It was just me and her. And it was like, she could walk in the washroom on me. She could walk in my bedroom on me. Really the boundaries were none so of course when I got a partner in my life and then we started living together I had to start setting those boundaries with her. Which was hard and hard for him to understand too because he parents different, and he had those type of boundaries in place with his son. I had to, explained to him, well, this is different. And then it's a difference of parenting styles and choices that way too. And that I didn't put these in place for her before, and that's my fault, but I understand that I need to know, and that's something we'll have to work on together and she'll have to learn, that its things are different now. There's somebody else living in the house. And 

[00:22:23] Kelly: so how did that go trace or is it still, I guess it's still ongoing.

[00:22:26] Tracey: She's pretty good now, but I mean, I had to have a lot of open conversations with her about things and, there were a couple, things she did, continually, and then after a couple, like, no, you can't do that. She finally caught on and got it. And understood. But I think it was hard for her because she was young too. And she was used to having a lot of my attention plus kind of full access to me at any given time. But I think, it made it better for me to put those boundaries in place too, because I needed that as a mom. I needed certain things to be private. And so, it taught me a lesson in that was better for my wellbeing and my mental health. 

[00:23:06] Lindsey: Well, you're also teaching her about boundaries and encouraging her to, hey, you know, moms got these boundaries, and you can explain why and be consistent with them, but that will help her maybe establish her own boundaries. And it's okay to do that. So that's good. Kudos to you 

[00:23:25] Tracey: going back to though, how you maybe learn boundaries from the way you're raised. Part of the reason why I didn't have a lot of boundaries with her is because I felt like I grew up with a lot of boundaries and I didn't want to be that rigid. I kind of went to the other end of the extreme, I guess. And now I'm kind of in the middle area, I found a happy medium. 

[00:23:46] Kelly: No, that's really good so do you guys want to talk about personal boundaries? 

[00:23:50] Lindsey: Ooh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:23:52] Kelly: So, for myself, I've had to set, phone boundaries, around turning. Yeah. Those all things are addictive. You know, as first, you know, turning my phone off powering it down by a certain time at night not scrolling social media when I really truly want to be doing something else, like reading a book or, and I have a list of, I call them daily non-negotiables, but those, I guess you would also call them personal boundaries and I've got them on a sticky note. I went and grabbed them out of my kitchen. Cause I've got them on the inside of a cabinet in my kitchen. And some days it needs to be on the outside of the cabinet for me to see, 

[00:24:29] Lindsey: oh, I love that. Yeah. What are they? 

[00:24:32] Kelly: Okay. There are seven things. Okay. So, the first thing is to stay sober. 

[00:24:37] Lindsey: Yes. Number one, 

[00:24:38] Kelly: number one, because everything falls into place for me after that. So, the next one is quality sleep. 

[00:24:45] Lindsey: Yes. 

[00:24:45] Kelly: The next one is quality food. Some time in nature. So, in some way, every day, yoga, meditation, and breath work. And the last one I have on there is read. I just love, you know, taking the time to read something every day. I've got books all over my place and just whatever calls to me, I pick it up and open it up and read a little something.

[00:25:07] Lindsey: I love that. And what happens if somebody's like it's nine o'clock, 9:30 PM. Your phone? I don't know. Maybe you don't have your notifications on, but I know for me, it's like getting those dings or seeing, not even getting a dang, but just seeing that someone's messaged me. I used to be compelled to just grab for my phone and respond immediately. And I know like even in business, right? Like you've got team members reaching out to you, customers and stuff like that. And that's one thing I had to learn. Like it's 10 30 at night. I am not responding to you until the next day when I am able to write, like I'm not going to be on my phone at midnight, you know, speaking about certain things or. Yeah. 

[00:25:49] Kelly: Yeah. Which is something I learned the hard way, because when I was drinking, when I was drinking, I had zero boundaries. I'd be in my bed at midnight on my phone, or sometimes my laptop with me right in there. Like it was insanity. Yeah, I had no, no boundaries around any of that stuff before. So, it's really important to me. And Sometimes I will see the notification, but I don't think I'm at my best if I've already like brushed my teeth and wash my face and you know, like it's winding downtime, downtime. Yeah. I'm not going to be effective in my job. Or if I'm answering somebody from the podcast or something I want to make sure I'm in the right frame of mind when I'm communicating with people about important things.

[00:26:32] Tracey: That's good. That's really good. 

[00:26:34] Lindsey: Another kind of boundary is physical, with your physical body. And I want to say this scenario because I feel like I saw this on. I don't know if it was a podcast that I was listening to or an audio book or an Instagram account, I follow a lot of positive ones, but when you think about a boundary or a physical boundary with your body, and you think about when your kid, and I've seen this, with my nephews where we're like, give me a hug and kiss and the, the little kids, like, no, I don't want to, but you, as the parent are like, kiss your grandma or give your uncle a hug, I'm thinking, oh my God, this thing that I heard really. Changed my mindset or kind of opened my mind to thinking differently because I'm not a parent, but I feel like I would be that kind of parent. If you're telling your grandma, like why are we forcing kids to be physical with other human beings, family members or not? When they say no and they don't want to do it and run away, but we're like, Nope, kiss your grandma. Or like your uncle, give them a hug. And my sister's now because I have two nephews, I have two sisters, they each have a nephew, but I think they operate like that. If they don't want to be physical or embrace you, it's a hard, no, they're developing their boundaries with their own bodies and stuff, but I don't know. What do you guys think about that? Cause I know Trace and Kel like you guys have kids and 

[00:27:55] Kelly: I was definitely raised to do that. Like say, you know, like say, go say hi to this person, go hug this person, give them a kiss. Then I think definitely now parents are way more aware of that. I see that with your, you know, your sister's age kids. I do see that with my kids. I don't remember. I'd have to ask them, but I, I doubt very much that I would have made them. I mean, I physical boundary, would that be saying hi, I made them do things like that. Like come say, we've got friends over, just come say hi, you don't have to stay and talk, you know, just, just come say hi. But no, physically I wouldn't have forced my kids to hug somebody or, yeah, 

[00:28:34] Tracey: In general, I think it's a respect courtesy thing. And that's why parents do it. I would definitely say, I don't think I was guilty of it just because I don't have that kind of kid that I'd have to push it and my kids, an affectionate kid and I think it all depends on the kid. And I think it's a large scope conversation because part of it has to do too though, showing your children that it's okay to be affectionate and be affectionate with people you love and care about. I think the simple part about it is that parents do it because they think it's a common courtesy, the way they should greet people in their family, just like you would tell them to say hi to someone at the grocery store. It's just like common courtesy. Does it make it right? That you would force a kid when they don't want too No! And you should know your own child and maybe sense that they're not an affectionate child. I think you have to have a sense for people and their comfortability level. 

[00:29:32] Kelly: Yeah. And with children, like, I feel like if you're forcing them, to do something that goes against who they are, that's teaching them to not trust their own intuition.

[00:29:43] Lindsey: Exactly yes. 

[00:29:45] Tracey: True. Very true.

[00:29:46] Lindsey: Some people, I think just prefer not to be I'm a very hugging, I like to hug and embrace people and, even new people that I meet, I'm like that. There are some people that do not want to be physically touched. They don't want to hug. And I don't think you should be in a position where you're feeling forced to having to do that. And I know A people pleaser might have a hard time saying no to that. And then you are awkward and like an asshole. If you don't want 

[00:30:15] Kelly: somebody who does, who doesn't want to hug, it doesn't feel great 

[00:30:20] Lindsey: I've also had somebody that I didn't feel like self hugging, you know? And I'm just like, huh, like why did I do that? 

[00:30:27] Kelly: Was it me 

[00:30:28] Lindsey: never? No. Yeah. 

[00:30:35] Tracey: I know you have some input on this because you said yourself before, and I know you that you weren't much of a hugger, but you're more open to that now. 

[00:30:43] Mike: Yeah. Definitely growing up that kind of stuff was I don't think it was necessarily it wasn't enforced if you will. But there were opportunities where I was just like, yeah, fuck. I do not want to do this at all. And would do it because of your kid. And I think that a lot of that though comes from a generational thing where it's just been passed down and, our parents' generation would have been taught by their parents potentially. I think it's kind of like Kelly had mentioned, it's getting better with the parents of this generation, they're more cognizant of that, but for myself. Honestly, I think it was more energy. Like I picked up on people who. Especially women, there's certain women, I could get a good sense of, I like this person and yeah. I want to exchange energy. I mean, a lot of this boundary talk it's about these energy vampires, the manipulators they want to just Rob you, even in business, I find too, they want to Rob you of your energy and your knowledge and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like piss off person. Back to the hugging thing, it's the same thing for me. I probably hugged, some of my guy buddies, just as much as I do women, went, and played hockey with some of my buddies, I hadn't seen her in awhile. And the one guy I hadn't seen in like fricking two years, and I got this, Hey. And I was like, hey buddy, you have to go. And he came over, he was like, oh, give me a hug. I was like, for sure. He's that kind of guy. Whereas some guys definitely aren't some of my closest buddies are, no, that doesn't happen. I find now more, I wait and go is it at handshake, or is it a fist bump or is it

[00:32:20] Lindsey: it's a little different now? 

[00:32:22] Kelly: I was just gonna say that, like now physical boundaries it's changed. I was at yoga today and at the counter, they were masked free and everything there. And in the washroom, there's two sinks and I was washing my hands and the woman, I wasn't looking at her, I was looking down, washing my hands and I felt like I saw her come out of the bathroom and around me, but she was kind of behind me. And she said, is it okay if I come wash my hands beside you? So, it's kind of, it makes me sad, but you know, there's a lot of fear there, but it's a new thing. And I I've noticed people even saying like, can we hug? You know, like, you know, 

[00:32:59] Mike: I think that definitely needs to be talked about. I just don't want to see people who are natural naturally outgoing that way, half ask, is it two types of boundaries? Hey, can I hug you? And you know, the other person is another is, or at least the formerly where you know, it's, I mean, shit, I don't want to see society go backwards in that regard. I think, a lot of the topics we've spoken about over the course of 10, it's obviously more focused on the alcohol side of things, but they're emotionally based. And, I think at least for me, from men's perspective, we have a hard enough time as it is expressing who we are and how we're feeling. I mean, absolutely. It's hard enough time now we're going to have to meet and go, we'll get that permission to do these things. I don't know. It's tough. It's a tough, tough thing. 

[00:33:49] Kelly: I find it really sad; I see it as a reality, and I do see why it's a reality. I just, yeah, I don't want to go backwards either. Mike. It's just like, 

[00:33:58] Mike: hopefully, we can kind of steer the ship in a way that, helps everybody involved. Cause I don't know about you guys, but I know people who are, you know, since the mandates for these maps, for the masks have been lifted, they're still wearing a mask and things like that. It's like, for me. You do you, that's cool. You want to bowl problem? And I got no problem with it at all. I really don't know. I was going to say yet. I hope you don't feel that because I choose to be who I want to be, but that changes how our relationship was and it is currently so 

[00:34:34] Kelly: no. Yeah. I would imagine that scenario today in the change room was. Respecting my possible boundaries, right? Not knowing where everybody is at with all this. She was fine with it, but was saying like, I should maybe respect this person's boundary if she doesn't want me to be beside her. So, it's really interesting.

[00:34:54] Tracey: And that part of it, I don't think is a bad thing. Kel personally, I'm a very affectionate person with the people that I care about and that I love. And the people in general that, I might be meeting, and I know we're close to other people I know and have a good energy about them, but I have a lot of physical boundaries when I don't know people. I don't want people in my space. I get very anxious in crowds. Like I hate crowds. It gets me really, really anxious. And I don't like the physical closeness of people around me when I don't know them. So, I've always, always struggled with that. And it hasn't changed. I still don't like it. 

[00:35:34] Mike: I think this is really good. Do you think that I know for me, the answer is yes? And I feel the same way as you do trace, but I tell you when I used to go out and get rip roar and drunk, I would like, yay, come on everybody. It seems like everybody when they're drunk 

[00:35:50] Lindsey is like,

[00:35:54] Tracey: I was going to bring this up. Do we think that alcohol release you of all the boundaries? 

[00:36:01] Kelly: There's no boundaries. There's no what to ate what I ate, who I talked to. 

[00:36:12] Lindsey: Oh my God. 

[00:36:14] Kelly: How much I drank 

[00:36:16] Mike: the next day and go, oh my God, what the hell did I talk about with that person? 

[00:36:21] Lindsey: Or someone confides in you and you freaking go and tell somebody else about it. And then you're like, oh shit, what did I just do? Yeah. 

[00:36:30] Kelly: As all the boundaries. 

[00:36:32] Tracey: Another reason not to drink people because we've already established that everybody needs boundaries so completely taking them away. Probably not the best idea. 

[00:36:42] Lindsey: No, it's not good. 

[00:36:44] Mike: I gotta tell you guys something that happened this week and its kind of is related to boundaries. So, I told you before my social life was built around drinking and, you know, go to bars and watching sports and yada yada. And I actually, for the first time I went out, I mean, I don't even watch hockey, but it was a guy, one of my friend's birthdays and they were just getting together to watch the Leaf game. I said, I'll when I leave in work, I'll stop by. Yeah. I'll grab some dinner and yeah, I'll hang out with you guys. But then two days later, a different. Friend. He's like, I miss you, man. Like, you know, you don't have to, you don't have to drink to come out to the bar to see us. And I kind of was like, yeah, I know, but I kinda thought sat there. And I was like, I just thought to myself, like, he associated the fact that I don't go to see them because I don't drink. And I didn't struggle with it, but I just thought, Hmm. It was really odd that, he felt that that was the only place that we could commingle. Now I've got to figure out, hey, like, do you want to come for a bike ride? Maybe? I'll still go. Like I said, I will still go, but I'm not going to go for seven or eight hours. Pull an eight-hour shift. I'd go and have some lunch and spend an hour, an hour and a half. It just was odd to me that I'm not odd, but it was there in the forefront. I thought. Hmm. Interesting. Very much interesting because his words were, I miss old Mike and I was like, I'm still saying guy still crack the same jokes. I'm just not going out and pound and 12 beers. with you guys, 

[00:38:11] Lindsey: well, what if that's a boundary you have, I can't be in that scene. I can't be around drunk people because I'm. No, no. Yeah. What if that is a boundary that you have with yourself to help you and encourage yourself to stay, on the straight and narrow and not drink? Does that person realized, maybe Mike doesn't come down here to the bars and hang out with us because you're immersed in all of the drinking culture again.

[00:38:36] Mike: No, I know. I don't know. It's a good question, I think, but definitely do what I want to do now. That's not even an issue that probably took a little bit of time and the, you know, in the first say six months, I really wanted to quit smoking weed, for example, and I thought, you know what? I'm quitting drinking. I'll get there, I'll get there. And football. I mean, I love watching football on Sundays. It's the only sport that I really watch. And it was always at the bar, but now I ended up watching it at my house with nobody here and I, you know, watching the TV, but it was smoking weed. And then it was like, okay, how do I get rid of smoking weed around football? You know, it's the same kind of thing is what you're alluding to. Anyway, there was a point to this shoot, I lost my train of thought. Damn, sorry. 

[00:39:20] Tracey: We can come back to you, Mike. You think of it. I think they're all wanting to say something there. 

[00:39:26] Kelly: Yeah. I just wanted to say like around boundaries one thing my therapist said to me in the beginning, I was struggling with my marriage, I'm having a new dynamic with no alcohol. And then one of my close friends, she reminded me, a few times she said, Kelly, remember your, the one that changed. So, you know, when you said maybe go for a bike ride or something like that. I think it's our responsibility to, if we want to keep that relationship and that relationship was revolved around alcohol or revolved around whatever else we we've made a change around in our life. If we still want that person in our life, then let's get creative. Like, let's do a walk every Sunday instead of going out every Friday night, you know, 

[00:40:06] Tracey: take the initiative, 

[00:40:07] Kelly: take the, taking the initiative and remember that it was just a big thing for me to hear that I'm the one that changed. I can't expect the people around me to change or know what I want to do if I don't want to go drinking or sit and watch Netflix and drink. 

[00:40:22] Mike: You're saying you put the onus on you to be the instigator of the, of the meetup. If you will always like it can not say, Hey, wanna. 

[00:40:31] Kelly: Maybe, but if, they don't know how to, if that's all they've ever known, if all they've ever known is drinking, Mike, do they even know what you like to do outside of drinking? I don't know. 

[00:40:42] Mike: Yeah. That's fair. Well, I think that that's fair. I think I kind of remember where I was going with back to that thing was being around people that when they're drunk. I get together like once every six weeks with a group of guys and we'd play cards and they all, except for one guy, he may have a few drinks here or there, but not, not very many. But they all get drunk, and I tolerate it. It's not annoying or anything like that. And I have sat there and go what would I do? Like I never had been tempted by any means, but the thoughts of, well, you would have been drunk by now, or you would have been, you know, like it's interesting. I guess what I'm saying is I have the, the ability to let my mind, have a healthy conversation and say, yeah. You know what? This is why he chose not to drink and like look at the so-and-so and call them tomorrow and ask them how they're feeling, 

[00:41:31] Kelly: bring them some McDonald's short Donald, 

[00:41:35] Mike: you know, you drank a half a bottle of rye last night. How are you feeling now? Don't want to talk about it. Right. Listen, I hear my buddies. They say, oh yeah, we went and did this, that everything. And that was on a Saturday. And Jesus, I didn't feel good until Thursday. And I thought, there it is, there it is. You know, is it worth the sacrifice? Now? It just is not, And I think for everybody, you will, some people figure it out in their early twenties. And some people figured out in their mid forties, you'll figure it out. I think you will figure it out. We'll get sick of it. Definitely. And that's the boundary. You have to set with yourself and say, all right, enough's enough. I'm done 

[00:42:12] Tracey: on that. Yeah. 

[00:42:13] Kelly: Yeah. So then from there on what would you guys say to somebody who is just starting out? Like they'd just quit drinking this week and knew that they had no boundaries. How do you figure out, how do you recognize where in your life you need to set these boundaries? Like, I'm trying to think back to how this stuff popped up for me 

[00:42:34] Lindsey: Yeah. Just avoid of, I think of. Triggering situations and listen to your gut if you're invited out to a party or a bar or something. And you're like, Ooh, I don't know if this is a good idea. It's probably not a good idea. It's probably too soon. So then don't go. Don't feel that pressure to go. Or, oh, if I don't go, they're not going to invite me again. Really baby yourself. Be kind to yourself and start here. Yeah, you'll get there, like start setting boundaries sort of around the, but around the alcohol. Yeah. 

[00:43:11] Kelly: That's really good. Well, yeah, that's number one on my list. Like no alcohol, and that might be the only boundary on your list for the first little bit. Just don't freaking drink, 

[00:43:22] Lindsey: or if you do go and you start to freak out while you're there having anxiety, don't be afraid to remove yourself from that situation. Don't stay in a situation where you're triggered, you're panicking. You don't feel good because that doesn't last forever. You know, don't be afraid to leave. 

[00:43:43] Kelly: Yeah, that's really good. 

[00:43:44] Mike: Well, let me ask you guys this. So, what if somebody is in that scenario and they, and it's the first week to whatever it is, it doesn't matter what it is and they cave I may say, yeah, and they have one drink and at least a two or three and they go home and doesn't the disappointment set it and all the

[00:44:02] Lindsey: shame,

[00:44:03] Kelly: shame.

[00:44:03] Mike: Yeah. All that shaming kicks in and it's like, you know what, maybe that's what needed to happen in order to now set different boundaries, 

[00:44:12] Lindsey: you can set a boundary. I can't be in this situation. 

[00:44:16] Kelly: And maybe the boundary is today. I'm going to go to a meeting. Or today I'm going to call a therapist, like a new boundary, because that first boundary wasn't enough, right. There needs to be a stronger boundary. 

[00:44:30] Mike: And we'll get the look at the guests. We had Kelly. Right. Remember she said, I don't, I think it was, she had quit for three years. And I don't remember if it was 7, 7, 7, and three or three than seven, something like that. Right. So, I mean, you could do it and it doesn't mean that. If he fell off the horse, if you will, that you can't get back on and you'll get there and you'll say, okay, I'm, I'm good. Now I will, I will get there. You know, like, 

[00:44:58] Kelly: oh yeah, 

[00:44:58] Lindsey: don't beat yourself up. And always just get back on the horse, just get back up, get on the wagon again. If you fall off and you stumble and you have a drink and it leads to a blackout night or whatever, and then the next day you're full of shame and you're upset with yourself, and you've done some stupid stuff. Start again. It's a new day. Keep that's the first keep trying. That's the first day. Today's the first day I'm not drinking, just keep trying. 

[00:45:25] Mike: It's not a race, 

[00:45:26] Lindsey: it's not a race 

[00:45:28] Kelly: I know a lot, a lot of people who had lots and lots of day ones before they got years strung together, you know? Yeah. 

[00:45:37] Kelly: I think it can take a couple of like a few tries 

[00:45:41] Tracey: depending on the person and absolutely can. And I was just going to say, be kind to yourself and take it day by day. I think you do have to put yourself in situations to learn what your boundaries should be and to kind of test them and figure out what are your triggers once you know those, then you'll have a lot easier time creating the boundaries, 

[00:46:03] Lindsey: creating the boundaries.

[00:46:04] Kelly: Yeah. What are your triggers? What makes you feel grounded? What makes you feel calm? What's keeps you sober or alcohol motivated. free 

[00:46:13] Mike: motivated mood. Yeah. And his mood is everything right. We know that serotonin levels are scientifically proven to keep that mojo going.

[00:46:23] Kelly: What, what are some things somebody can do to boost their serotonin? Mike, 

[00:46:27] Lindsey: go for a walk. 

[00:46:29] Mike: Oh God. Yeah. I mean, I'd be the best person to talk about this right now because I been neglecting my walks, but for sure walks

[00:46:36] Tracey: laugh. 

[00:46:37] Mike: Physical. Yeah. Oh yeah. We talked about that last time.

[00:46:41] Mike: You always got to go to the

[00:46:49] Kelly: not with this group. 

[00:46:51] Mike: We are like, 

[00:46:53] Kelly: yeah.

[00:46:57] Lindsey: Dance party, 

[00:46:59] Tracey: dance party 

[00:47:01] Kelly: and your cat or dog. What? You had a dance party today. 

[00:47:05] Mike: Oh yeah, I was, I was, yeah, we had the tunes pumping.

[00:47:12] Tracey: Yeah. Exercise in general. Yeah. 

[00:47:14] Lindsey: Exercise. Yes. And sunlight. I don't know. I love the sun on my face. Fricking blinds. Do you know, even if you're just sitting on the floor, light on the floor, I have like my office room, I've got this big garden door and a lot of sun comes in. Sometimes I will literally just go in there and lie down on my back, half my face in the sun and breathe. And I'm just like, ah, like I love this. 

[00:47:38] Tracey: Yeah. And soaking it all in. Yeah. Rest, give yourself a rest, take a nap or make sure, make sure you have a good sleep. Go to sleep earlier that night, 

[00:47:49] Lindsey: what's that 

[00:47:50] Mike: I was going to say I definitely a hundred percent. If I ever conversation with it's usually with guys and they say they're asking me something in relation to, hey, how did you do this? Or how did you do that? I always say, listen, I know it's not going to make any sense. I promise you it does just try it meditate. I'm telling you it frigging works, man. It's like, I don't even know how to explain it. And I've said this to them. I said, it's. You meditate for 10 minutes, and you get come out of meditation and it feels like you've slept for eight hours. The energy, just like it. I do it every morning before I start to go to work. I have to do it. I have thing because sometimes I don't sleep very well, maybe because I'm stressed about work. And I got, I know I've got 9,000 things to do at work and that's something I got to start putting boundaries on the amount of time working as opposed to resting. But yeah, meditating is man. It's, it's insane. Guided meditation is what I do. And it's just, you use an app. I use for a while I used to use a YouTube and I listened to the same and then I was like, you know, I'm going to try something new. So, I found, I found a few, but I use guided because 

[00:49:03] Kelly: I use insight timer.

[00:49:05] Lindsey: I like calm, and calm is a good one. 

[00:49:07] Lindsey: I love that one. If you want to give meditation to try, just, yeah. Download an app. There are usually free components, 

[00:49:15] Kelly: you know, mine's all free. I don't pay for anything on my times. And yeah, 

[00:49:19] Mike: there are tons and tons. The ability to have a mantra to repeat that helped me because I have ADHD for sure. It's undiagnosed, but I can adapt for sure. But that Ferris wheel just keeps going and going and go. it's certainly slowing down at a, you know what? You can't turn your mind off. I mean, I haven't got there. I don't even think damn the Buddhist monks can turn their minds off completely, but they can sure. Heck slows it down. So 

[00:49:48] Tracey: Going back to, if it's someone's day one, I would say, and I know Kelly you've touched on a few times journaling, but I would say even if you can write down one positive thing, you felt on day one that you felt better about. From that new person on day one, not drinking compared to the person drinking would be a good place to start because I guarantee there's one thing, whether it be you woke up and remembered everything as simple as that, or you woke up and you felt good, not sluggish or whatever, 

[00:50:22] Kelly: save you save $12. 

[00:50:24] Tracey: There you go.

[00:50:25] Kelly: And your bottle of wine, 

[00:50:27] Tracey: it could be the smallest thing but guaranteed. There's one positive that you're going to be able to find and focus on that and build from there. 

[00:50:34] Kelly: That's great. 

[00:50:36] Lindsey: I think too, for boundaries to have a really strong foundation you've got to show yourself love. So just like what we're talking about, all these things that release those good hormones. If you are constantly telling yourself that you are worthless and undeserving, you're going to have a really hard time putting boundaries in place that protect you. And I think people who don't have boundaries in place, maybe part of it is there. They feel undeserving of that. I don't know. What do you guys think?

[00:51:05] Lindsey: Like it comes down to self-worth and self-value so people who have a high self-worth and self-value, I find that they implement. Boundaries easier or maybe more often. And if they stick to them, yes. Right. 

[00:51:21] Tracey: Like I said, at the beginning, boundaries are part of your values. That's like, if you have strong values, it's no different.

[00:51:28] Lindsey: Okay. And it's part of your internal dialogue. What you're telling yourself about yourself. If you look in the mirror and you think I hate this, and I'm too fat here and my nose is too big. And I did this shitty thing last night. You're going to have a really hard time putting boundaries in place. 

[00:51:45] Mike: And that, kind of thinking, I swear to you can change with meditation. Oh, I promise you. I promise you with. For me, all those things, not verbatim, but a lot of those things would always come in my head and looking at you how hard it was for me to look at myself in the mirror. I mean, shit. Insane. I couldn't even look at myself in the mirror and go, you love yourself. Like you love yourself. I love me. I couldn't do that. No way 

[00:52:15] Lindsey: even saying it out loud. 

[00:52:16] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:52:17] Lindsey: It's one thing to even like, think it, but when you're starting to try to have that better internal dialogue, don't just think it, say it out loud so that your brain, your ears, you can hear it. You can hear your voice saying, and then you start to believe it. Yes. Put it out there. And don't talk negatively about yourself. Like when somebody gives you a compliment, I used to feel super awkward. I still do. But instead of saying, oh, when someone's like, you're really pretty instead of. Thank you and smile. Thank you. Start, believing good things about yourself and when people pay you compliments instead of downplaying it or devaluing yourself in front of them, accept the compliment and thank them. That will help you in implement and develop boundaries for yourself boundaries with your own. Self-talk like, I guess, that's a, that's a boundary to have with yourself. I'm not going to speak badly about myself. Yeah, go ahead. Trace. What were you going to say? 

[00:53:20] Tracey: Oh, I was just gonna say that if you value yourself, then you're going to value your time, value your energy. You're also going to value yourself enough to not worry about what other people think. If you have to say no, or whether you're a pleasing or not, or yes, feeling bad about it or feeling guilty about it. So, the more you value yourself, the less you're going to worry about those things. And the more likely you are going to be to be able to put boundaries in place.

[00:53:50] Mike: And I think that that plays on the fact that being able to be with yourself and be alone. And that is I think, a big struggle for people. And that's one of the reasons why they drink. For men, especially, a lot of men's alcoholism. Stems from, being by themselves in what way to feel good about yourself while you're by yourself is a drink it's ridiculous. My dad spent his life in bars, and I think he just went to the bars just to have that background noise, but I don't really know that he engaged with a lot of the, there was bar regulars and stuff, but I don't know that he really was on their, level it's awful to say that. I mean, not that I'm trying to talk bad about my dad or anything like that, but you gotta be able to be by yourself, hands down and be comfortable. 

[00:54:36] Tracey: that's another boundary though. The boundary of, not constantly having people around, but I think you're right, Mike, I think men struggle with that. More with being by themselves. Men start from a very young age surrounding themselves with a big group of friends. Right. There's always some big gang of guys. I see it at the gym right now. I go to the gym right now and I go to a cheap gym. So, it's all kids and they're all there with their buddies. There's my young guy working out by himself. He's there with three or four of his friends. 

[00:55:09] Mike: That's the pack mentality though. That's what, no, man, men are instinctively the protectors of their family, if you will. This is completely off topic. No. Let's look at men or boys that get into gangs, they get into gangs because a lot of times they don't have a role model, a father figure, and then they go and they seek like-minded individuals and it's these kids and, they're getting in trouble. And a lot of it starts at a young age and booze is right connected with it. Hey, it's insane. They just want to be loved. They don't have the skillset to love themselves because they haven't been taught, a lot of it's out there. 

[00:55:52] Kelly: That sense of belonging. Do you guys think that makes me think about the dating world and how it seems people in our age group men seem to quickly get into relationships they get in their next long-term relationship a lot quicker than women seem to, I'm not talking about you, Mike

[00:56:15] Kelly: but could that be is that along the same lines of like, not wanting to be with yourself and not wanting to deal with your stuff that probably needs dealt with or just jumping into the next relationship? 

[00:56:25] Mike: See, I think in fairness, from my observations. I think it's close. I got one friend who's. I think he's on his fourth wife. I don't know. I haven't seen him in a long time, but for what I hear and it's like this isn't this guy ever just, spend a year, two years by yourself figuring shit out. Do they feel like they're going to miss out on? I don't know. 

[00:56:49] Tracey: I think part of it's being taken care of by the women to Kel it's almost like a motherly thing, right? They think a lot of those men have been. 

[00:57:00] Kelly: That's why I've been single for so long. I don't want to be any body else’s this mother; I already have three children. Thank you. Very. 

[00:57:06] Lindsey: Thank you very much. Well, maybe, maybe two, it's like a value thing. Like if you don't have a partner, you aren't like, what's wrong with you, right. What's wrong with you? Are you not? 

[00:57:20] Mike: I think it's a lot of the stuff you guys are talking about. It's not just one thing for sure.

[00:57:23] Lindsey: Yeah. It's combined. 

[00:57:25] Tracey: Yeah, for sure. 

[00:57:26] Lindsey: Well, I think one last thing we should talk about is financial boundaries. What if you have a family member or friend who's constantly asking you to borrow money, or saving money? What if you are in a group of friends? I see this a lot. Somebody getting married and they ask you to be the man of honor, but their bachelorettes in Mexico and the trip is $2,000 and you're like excuse me, I love you. Friends want to be your maid of honor, but I can't afford this

[00:57:55] Lindsey: there's all kinds of things like, 

[00:57:56] Kelly: oh yeah. That's why you're missing out on, on social media.

[00:58:05] Lindsey: Let's talk about these, but 

[00:58:07] Mike: that's probably part of natural things. That's probably part of the reason why they're going to Mexico because everybody's doing it on social.

[00:58:21] Kelly: I'm assuming when you say family members asking for money, you're meaning people other than my own children. 

[00:58:26] Lindsey: Yeah. I mean, I don't have personal experience with this, but I I've listened to other people talk man, I just borrowed this person a hundred dollars and they're asking me for 200, the next week, they haven't even paid me back yet. And I've experienced and listened to I'm borrowing somebody's money and then them not taking the initiative to get it back to you. And then you, as the borrower feeling awkward, asking them about it, like, hey, it's been four weeks. And now you're going, I see you just bought this thing that you posted on social media, but you still own me like, hello.

[00:59:09] Kelly: Hmm. I don't think I've ever, that's not a thing. 

[00:59:13] Tracey: I don't have any money. So now he's asking,

[00:59:20] Kelly: you're safe 

[00:59:21] Tracey: yeah. Yeah, but I do. I understand what you're saying. And I guess I could more relate to the situation where people doing really expensive stuff and wanting you to participate in. But I mean, I'm, I think if those people are close enough people to you, they know your financial circumstances. I also think that going back to, again, this is where you have to be honest and just, I would flat out say like, I'm sorry, I'd love to, but I can't afford it. Or, you know, was. 

[00:59:52] Mike: But 

[00:59:53] Kelly: no explanation. 

[00:59:55] Mike: No, nope. Not do it. And if you don't like it and you don't want to be my friend, well, you know what, screw you.

[01:00:02] Kelly: That's a good point around boundaries. Just saying no with no explanation. That's people pleasing because of this thing and that thing and that thing. Well, no, just no. 

[01:00:15] Mike: That should give you some sort of strength in the fact that you can it's okay to say no and then not have the, oh, well about the back of the light, me and blah, blah, blah, crap. That goes, no, the answer is no, that's it about you anymore. Just, no, I don't have to explain yourself. 

[01:00:34] Tracey: What about saying in that circumstance? No, I don't agree. That, that should be the way that people are forced to spend their money. Yeah. It could be another opinion. You may have that scenario 

[01:00:47] Kelly: ask why to ask

[01:00:49] Mike: Money ruins relationships. Like, let's be honest. It ruins friendships relationships. it's the root of all problems. I think. So, get involved with the money aspect. I popped that to my opinion. 

[01:01:01] Tracey: Well, sorry more to the point where you should have boundaries around it, right? Yeah. Right. 

[01:01:07] Kelly: I feel like I've done a lot of work around money. As far as having an abundant mindset to not having an emotional attachment and things like that. And I've, I don't think I've ever to anybody other than my kid’s money. But you know, if I pay for something, if I go away with somebody and I pay for something or go out for dinner with somebody and they say, I'll split it with you or I'll you transfer you after. Yeah. I'll give them the total. But if they don't. I really don't like, I don't care if you don't pay me back, I'm not going to offer to pay for something or offered to do something for somebody with anything expected in return. That's just, I don't know. 

[01:01:41] Lindsey: I love that, 

[01:01:42] Mike: but there's bands go see any with that, because if it was 500 bucks as opposed to 50 bucks, then I think at least for me, it'd be no, dude. You want me 500 bucks, like different for women? 

[01:01:54] Kelly: Yeah. Maybe I don't think I would do something that I wouldn't be okay with not getting it back. Right. 

[01:02:01] Mike: That's fair for sure. Yeah, for sure. 

[01:02:04] Tracey: I think you're right. Kel not having expectations if you're giving, especially like if you're giving there, shouldn't be an expectation that you're doing it for the purpose of getting something back.

[01:02:16] Kelly: Right? Yeah. 

[01:02:16] Mike: But I also think they'll help be communication to say, at least for me, it's like all in Kelly's example. No. Just pay me that money, I don't want to have to chase you. And for me, maybe it's a bad thing. Hey, you owe me and I'm not going to keep chasing you, but I'm going to say stuff to you. That'll be little jabs. Maybe not directly. I, you owe me money, but that's just my personality. I mean, I'm not saying that people should do that. 

[01:02:42] Kelly: Yes. Aggressive though. 

[01:02:44] Lindsey: Some people would feel awkward about asking for it back, even though they were the ones that planted, right. Like why should we feel awkward about that? 

[01:02:51] Kelly: Yeah. 

[01:02:51] Mike: And won't disagree. It's like I said, it's my personality. Maybe that's something that I need to work on. But I, I'm just of the mindset of, I didn't come from a lot of money and there's something about it that there's respect involved. There are boundaries involved with the respect, this. I had the intention of loaning you this money. Oh, do either respect and pay me back or this relationship is over 

[01:03:13] Lindsey: Establish the boundary before the money's borrowed. That's one thing like, hey, before I give you this, when do you think he'd get it back to me by instead of just lending somebody something and just, just like an indefinite. Well, you know, whenever I can, 

[01:03:26] Mike: well, because what most people do though, is they don't say anything. Like you said, they go, well, I'm not gonna say anything, because I have no expectation, but you then end up the relationship just kind of goes like it parts ways. 

[01:03:40] Lindsey: And then you have resentment, 

[01:03:41] Kelly: but not necessarily I wouldn't not have resentment to stuff. Like I went to the spa the other day with a friend and I, everything went on my credit. Yeah. And she owed me money at the end of it. Like we had agreed we're going to split it, but if she didn't e-transfer me, her half, I wouldn't care.

[01:03:56] Mike: Ah, maybe there's a certain number behind it. I don't know for me anyway, but when it gets into hundreds and hundreds of dollars, 

[01:04:03] Kelly: it was over a hundred dollars. But I wouldn't have offered 

[01:04:05] Lindsey: to do the, you wouldn't, I wouldn't have put it on my credit card 

[01:04:09] Kelly: if I wasn't okay with the total amount, staying on my card and me paying for it.

[01:04:13] Mike: Okay. That's fair. I don't know if I'm at that point where I could say that. I honestly say, I don't think I chased the person, but I would say indirectly, like, I will give you an example. Somebody called me about four years ago. Somebody that I grew up with and. In dire straits said, can you e-transfer me 40 bucks for a cab? Is everything okay? Yeah. My car is broken down, blah, blah, blah. I said, no problem. Send it. and in that conversation, I'll payback Friday, whatever. It's okay. The next week. I shit. You not, I see this person in a store, my buddy store, they're buying stuff like they're buying stuff, shirt, shoes, and I'm sitting there. And I didn't say anything. I thought, 

[01:04:55] Lindsey: because you feel awkward.

[01:04:57] Mike: No, no. Like I said, this is probably as we talk this out, it's becoming more and more clear to me. I didn't feel he still didn't say anything to this day. I will never lend that person money ever again, 

[01:05:10] Lindsey: boundary. Did you ever get the money back or whatever?

[01:05:12] Mike: Got the money back. 

[01:05:13] Lindsey: That's crazy to me. 

[01:05:15] Mike: Never got the money back, but here's the difference? That relationship has parted ways because I'm not reaching out to this person anymore. So, if they know that they owe me that money and they choose to avoid me, what does that say about them? 

[01:05:30] Lindsey: That's exactly 

[01:05:30] Mike: the runners, right? Fight or flight. 

[01:05:33] Lindsey: That's not your people, right? 

[01:05:35] Mike: There's something about integrity involved and maybe it was something that I learned from my mom. Look, I hate owing money. I never borrow money. I will find a way to make the money. Cause I don't want to put myself in those scenarios.

[01:05:48] Lindsey: Yeah. 

[01:05:49] Tracey: So, it's more about your values and boundaries then really? Mike. 

[01:05:52] Mike: I think so, but I think as a society, we need to do a better job of doing what we say. And if we can't say you can't do it, I think that's the biggest problem with the communication. 

[01:06:03] Tracey: If this guy said to you, I need the 40 bucks, but I don't, I can't, I cannot, 

[01:06:08] Mike: that's a different, it's the fact that they lead in with the I'll pay you back. I need 40 bucks. I'll pay you back Friday.

[01:06:18] Lindsey: Going to give it to them unless they say, when they'll repay you. Right. So maybe it's a boundary about, yeah, that's good. Better communication because you would probably still give them money. Even if they said I will not be able to pay you back. 

[01:06:30] Mike: I would have given the 40 bucks in a heartbeat, and I've done it before. But when you mislead or misrepresent yourself, the number one thing I. And life is lies. I hate fucking lies. Don't lie. Just if you can't do something or just don't lie, we need to be more authentic

[01:06:49] Kelly: well, money is energy. 

[01:06:51] Lindsey: That's so good money. 

[01:06:53] Mike: Okay. I think I'm related to the fact that when someone says they're going to do something, they got to do it, or at least say I can't do it. And these are the reasons why 

[01:07:02] Lindsey: you have. Like, is it about, 

[01:07:04] Kelly is it a boundary or an expectation 

[01:07:06] Mike: It's expectation for sure? 

[01:07:08] Lindsey: Well, that's what a boundary is. I think it establishes the behavior that you're willing to accept. Right. Or, or the behavior that you yourself display. 

[01:07:18] Mike: I think that my thing though, also stems from a lot of things that I encountered growing up and, they're rooted and, at least I'm aware of it, no, one's perfect if you will, but I've definitely aware of it. And that 

[01:07:32] Kelly: maybe that $40. Has the same mindset as I do, and doesn't care about money? Okay. 

[01:07:37] Mike: No, I could get really ensuring that it's not, 

[01:07:42] Kelly: I mean, when I say expectation, I meant like your integrity is you doing what you say you're going to do. I think we get stuck. And Lindsay and I have talked about this so many times. I think we get really stuck when we expect people to have the same values as we do. 

[01:07:59] Tracey: Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. But like you said, this was, this is a boundary that you learn to change for yourself. 

[01:08:08] Kelly: Totally. Yeah. 

[01:08:09] Tracey: So now this is your new boundary. Yep. And clearly, it's a lot different than Mike's, but in general, they're both boundaries that you guys have yourself around. 

[01:08:20] Mike: I think for me, it's certain people I would do. I would do exactly. I've done what Kelly's done, definitely for certain people. But when someone calls you with the intention of, I think it's where we started with Lindsay saying, hey, I need 40 bucks or a hundred bucks a week. You will be a hundred bucks from weeks ago. that to me is a manipulator. Who's trying to take advantage of a situation. That's when I say like, yeah, fuck, no, sorry. You still owed me a hundred you still owed me a hundred dollars from two weeks ago, right? Yeah. I'll get that to you.

[01:08:50] Tracey: You're right. 

[01:08:56] Mike: I will loan you girls money. 

[01:08:58] Kelly: Okay. Then you Mike 

[01:09:02] Lindsey: yeah. Can you send me a wire transfer for 10 grand? I'll pay you back in three days. 

[01:09:07] Tracey: Well, I'm more interested in you teaching me about abundance. Okay. 

[01:09:10] Kelly: There's a book called. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Jen, Jen, something, you are a bad-ass Jen the next book is that's a yellow book. The next book is green and it's about money and it's really, really good. And it goes back to like what Mike was saying about it's all conditioned. It's conditioned thinking. It's how we grew up. You know, like for example, I got the message all the time. My dad was like, we can't afford that. 

[01:09:38] Lindsey: Money. Doesn't grow on trees, 

[01:09:39] Kelly: money doesn't grow on trees. Somebody's doing something must be nice, you know, that stuff. So, you can change all that. But it definitely it's in your head about what your attitude. 

[01:09:51] Lindsey: We got to do an episode on this fun. Yeah. Yeah. 

[01:09:55] Tracey: Okay, thank you so much to the listeners for listening. And hopefully we gave you some thoughts and ideas about boundaries, maybe a little homework to our listeners. Put some thoughts into things that you need to work on. What things in your life do you need to create some boundaries around? I know that after this episode, it's definitely gave me a few ideas and like Kelly, maybe I need to stick a little note on my door to remind me of the things that I need to have better boundaries around. So 

[01:10:24] Kelly: Post this in the group, I'll post 

[01:10:26] Lindsey: in the group. Oh, that's great. 

[01:10:28] Tracey: Yeah. So follow us on Facebook in our Facebook group, LAF life community. And follow us on Instagram @laflifepodcast and we really appreciate all your feedback. We love hearing from you. We love your comments. We love getting messages from you guys and that you're reaching out and it's been fantastic. So thanks so much. Thank you to my pod squad here. As I like to refer to you guys. 

[01:10:53] Kelly: 10 . 

[01:10:56] Tracey: Yes, here's a milestone. Nice for us. So, and we've almost reached a thousand downloads. That's going to be it

[01:11:06] Kelly: Thank you guys. Okay. Yay. Bye. 

[01:11:11] Closing

[01:11:11] Kelly: Thank you for listening. Please give us a five star rating like and subscribe, share on social media and tell your friends. We love getting your feedback and ideas of what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes of the laugh life podcast. If you yourself are living alcohol free and want to share your story here, please reach out.