Anxiety & Drinking Ep. 11

In this episode we tackle a common issue in today's society that has plagued us all, Anxiety! We noticed the topic of anxiety became a common theme for the 4 of us in most our episodes. We have all had the unfortunate experience of suffering with bouts of anxiety and even panic attacks.  We used alcohol as a way to try to control our feelings of anxiety, none of us realizing at the time that drinking was actually making the problem way worse.  It is scientifically proven that alcohol increases all the chemicals in our brain that cause anxiety. If you are someone that thinks that glass of wine, bottle of beer or cocktail of choice is calming your mind this episode may make you think again!!

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**Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this episode are not professional or medical opinions. If you are struggling with an addiction please contact a medical professional for help.

Music provided by Premium Beats: https://www.premiumbeat.com
Song: Rise and Thrive
Artist: Young Presidents

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Intro

[00:00:00] Kelly: Welcome to the laugh life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze-soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey, Djordjevic, Mike Sutton and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories.

[00:00:26] Kelly: We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support. 

[00:00:42] Mike: Welcome everybody to episode 11. And this week we will be talking about anxiety and how drinking relates to causing anxiety, combating anxiety, anxiety, anxiety, anxiety. Hello, Ladies 

[00:01:02] Kelly: hi.

[00:01:03] Mike: So, I know over the course of the previous 10 episodes I've mentioned how my anxiety definitely flared up when I did drink and when I wasn't drinking. And I. Was in denial at certain points throughout my life with, well, I need to drink because I want to be there and have a good time, et cetera, et cetera yet when I would, come home and the next day it was a ball of fire anxiety and not knowing how to deal with it, what to do, who to talk to, if anybody would talk to me, who do I reach out to you? So many things I used to say like a super ball bouncing on the floor, going all over the room. So, I think this is going to be a great episode to really well, at least share our own experiences and how we all probably went through the different stages of anxiety. Maybe we can ask each one of you when did you discover that you had anxiety and did you figure it was related to drinking in any way or did the drinking flare it up, make it worse? Let's start with Tracey this week. 

[00:02:09] Tracey: Hello? Yes. So, anxiety, this is a hot topic. And one that I think most people experience at least once in their life. If not on some sort of regular basis, especially now with all the things we have in life, stimulating us and all the things we are trying to juggle. So, I first experienced anxiety in my twenties and really had no idea what it was and actually had it so bad to the point of having panic attacks. And it took me a bit to figure out what it was. And to be honest with you, a lot of it was around social situations. So, I mentioned in my episode, but this was really like learning with maturity and experience that I always had social anxiety. I just didn't identify what it was back when I was having it. What I did learn though, is I did do some research and was lucky enough to have a friend that had suffered from anxiety as well and had done some work on herself and work to help her with her anxiety. And what I learned from her was that a lot of it is your own thoughts and trying to have the ability to control those or turn a lot of the negative chatter in your head into something more positive or trying to find ways to turn it off. I really didn't experience a lot of anxiety after that, and I felt it eased up and I was able to control it somewhat by just knowing that it was kind of in me. So, I did go through the next couple of decades of my life. Not experiencing much anxiety, thankfully, but when I got into my forties and started drinking more heavily, I did start noticing that the anxiety was coming back. And as my drinking increased, the anxiety got worse. I was pretty much having anxiety every day at the end of my drinking career. And it was really one of the things that pushed me to stop. I didn't realize at the time that it was the drinking thankfully, Mike, you pointed that out to me about your own experience, drinking and feeling like it was increasing your anxiety. So, when it started happening to me, recognized it because of you saying that to me and realize that the drinking was probably making it worse. I pretty much have had little to no anxiety since I quit drinking. So, it definitely was a hundred percent a contributing factor to my anxiety that I was experiencing at that time. I think most people don't experience anxiety when they're drinking. Like when they're chugging back a couple of drinks, you know, those drinks are making their anxiety feel better in the moment because they're forgetting about it and they're numbing it where I was experiencing anxiety was the next day when I'd wake up. And I learned today, actually that this is a scientifically proven thing. And people have coined the phrase, not to say that this is what it's actually called, but it's called Hangxiety, which was totally what I was having. And from what I could learn that experience happens because I'll call works with certain chemicals in your brain, one called Gabba and also with serotonin and dopamine, so when you wake up the next day after drinking, all those chemicals are heightened when you're drinking and then your body's basically rebooting all of those things. And they're at an all time low when you wake up the next day and you're not drinking and you're hung over also alcohol is a depressant and in response to that depressant, it increases cortisone and adrenaline, which are the stress hormones, which also causes. So, it is scientifically proven that drinking does increase anxiety with no doubt. So that's kind of my experience with it. I was so interested and thankful to read about that today because it wasn't just in my head. That was really what was going on with me. 

[00:06:24] Lindsey: I think a lot of people drink to relieve anxiety and stress, but here's the reality. As you build tolerance to alcohol, like the more you drink. The more tolerance you build the less effective alcohol is in decreasing those things for you in the short term. So, you need to consume more alcohol to have that calm sedative effect. And as you just said, Tracey, the more alcohol you ingest or put into your body the more you're messing with the chemicals in your brain and that hangs it the next day is like the withdrawal of all of those chemicals. And the adrenaline has increased. The cortisol is increased. It's just like this vicious merry-go-round yeah. Chartering to relieve. Yeah. You drink to relieve anxiety, but the drinking is actually causing your anxiety, your anxiety to be worse. 

[00:07:16] Tracey: Which would explain why I had it every day, because I was drinking every day. You ladies have both talked about having terrible hangovers, unlike a lot of people that experienced hangovers, like sick, tired, headache, all those types of things. can't get out of bed. I didn't experience any of that. My hangover wasn't anxiety physically. I was fine. I could function, no problem. I experienced all my hangover symptoms in my head, basically. 

[00:07:45] Kelly: Interesting Trace and how much were you drinking at night? 

[00:07:49] Tracey: I would say a two to three glasses of wine. Yeah. On an average night then, if it was the weekend or I was socializing or something, it would be more than that.

[00:07:58] Kelly: Right. 

[00:07:59] Mike: I think you, when you nailed it, you have to come to a point of awareness. That shit something's not right. And I think we all experience a different point. I know when I was drinking, I drank for a long time, like a long time and it just got progressively worse. As you said, trace, it just got worse. When we're in our twenties and we're having a good old time, I can't honestly say that I had anxiety. I'm sure I did, but I'd like, you hinted that you didn't know what the hell is going on. What is, what, what is this? I remember one specific situation when I was married, I had a panic slash anxiety slash I don't know what kind of attack and I literally collapsed, and I didn't know what was going on. I thought I was dying. I laid there, like, I'd lay there and say, I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on. And I actually made my way outside and that's when I collapsed on my deck. when that happened, I got back up and I didn't really think too much of it because you're young and you think I'm invincible, this isn't going to happen to me or whatever it is. And then you progressively let it, okay. It went away. And then you go back and do the same thing for five years, 10 years, however many years. And it just gets worse and worse. It's like getting fat, you keep eating crap and they get fatter and fatter, and you got to do things to combat the thing you're dealing with in this case, anxiety.

[00:09:16] Tracey: I was just going to say, I think I was lucky that I didn't experience it for awhile because then when I started again, it was like a red flag or my body telling me something's off with you again. My definition of anxiety is basically like a super strong gut feeling almost because when I got anxiety and maybe we can all talk about this too. How you guys’ experienced anxiety? When I experienced anxiety, it's like a million. Butterflies’ times a bazillion, I get it in my stomach. And it's very strong to the point where, I might not be able to eat. I might feel kind of nauseous. It's really like a knocking in my stomach. So that's why for me, I identify it with like this intense gut feeling, which to me is your intuition saying you're out of balance. your universe is off basically. 

[00:10:11] Mike: Okay. That's great. No, you're bang on. And when we would connect and catch up and have tea, we would connect on a level of not drinking. How many times can we go together and go grab a tea and just catch up? And it wasn't over alcohol. A lot of the things we talked about were related to alcohol situations and how we got ourselves in those situations. If we look at the root by alcohol, right, we were using each other as a sounding board. Making suggestions for one another about maybe try this or do that. And when you look at it, the root cause is, is it alcohol? Or, you know, it's a big contributing factor. I'm definitely glad that I'm definitely glad that we're all not riddled with anxiety like we once were for sure. But let's go to Kelly and hear about. Experiences with anxiety and what she feels or felt sorry. 

[00:11:01] Kelly: Sure, sure. Yeah, so I mentioned in a previous episode that I was diagnosed with what they call a generalized anxiety disorder in my early thirties. And I was absolutely not surprised by that at all. I am sure I had it my whole life. I grew up with a lot of chaos. So as a little girl, I was in that fight or flight. State a lot. And you know, I don't really remember making a lot of life changes when I got that diagnosis other than turning to wine, sadly enough, you know, I could feel kind of naive that I didn't understand how much wine would accelerate. I had always used it in social situations. Starting out when grade nine to come out of my shell. Because I wasn't confident enough to come out of my shell on my own. That's what I used alcohol for. And when I was drinking it, our last episode was the mommy wine culture, and it was all about that. And I joked about it and said it was my meds for my anxiety. I've never hidden the fact that I have an anxiety disorder. But I would joke about it and say, oh, I need it to feel better, which is so sad. But I definitely experienced what trace mentioned there. The Hangxiety And then it just became a cycle, you know? So, I was using it to take the edge off because my anxiety was so bad. The only thing that I knew now, I chose not to take medication for my anxiety. I'm not against it for anybody else. I don't judge anybody else for taking it. That was my choice. But anyway, I used my wine to take the edge off which, meanwhile, I was building my tolerance. you know, the, the hangovers, the physical hangovers to go along with that, which was awful. It was an awful state of being and so, like you said, Lindsey, I needed more to take that edge off. And then the next morning I had that anxiety again and it just kept getting worse and worse and worse. I would say now, right now, today, 90% better without alcohol. So, it's not completely gone out of my life, but I have some tools and I'm way more self-aware than I was back then. But maybe later on in the episode, we can talk about some of the tools that we use too, but yeah, that's kinda my and the funny thing is, this became a topic because it's come up in all of our stories and we didn't know that about each other. I mean, I knew about Lindsay, but we didn't all know that about each other before that, but hopefully a lot of people can relate to all this.

[00:13:33] Tracey: How would you experience your anxiety, Kel? 

[00:13:38] Kelly: Yeah, so just very over, I would call it being very overwhelmed. Completely overwhelmed. I would get overwhelmed to the point where I would freeze and just do nothing instead of the things, I needed to do day to day, basically. 

[00:13:55] Tracey: Yeah. 

[00:13:57] Mike: Frozen in your thoughts, you mean like just, 

[00:13:58] Kelly: I just wouldn't do anything.

[00:14:00] Mike: Yeah. 

[00:14:01] Kelly: Like I couldn't, I would have to manage my house, my business, my kids, all of those things. And I just, there were some days I just couldn't. 

[00:14:08] Mike: Wow. 

[00:14:09] Kelly: Yeah. 

[00:14:09] Tracey: I'm sure a lot of like you've spoken Kel boat your bad, a negative self-talk that you were having with yourself back then too, which I think is a lot of anxiety as well, right?

[00:14:20] Kelly: Yes. 

[00:14:20] Tracey: I know that I was experiencing that too. I feel like that's part of the anxiety cycle as well. 

[00:14:27] Kelly: Yeah. 

[00:14:28] Tracey: That's the part in your mind where you have somewhat control over, if you. Get a grip on it. And find some tools like you said to kind of manage that and turn it around, but definitely not drinking helps.

[00:14:42] Kelly: No, I was wrong. 

[00:14:46] Tracey: Yeah. 

[00:14:46] Mike: Ms. Lindsay share 

[00:14:50] Lindsey: oh, I feel like this topic really hits close to home because my experience with anxiety began for me when I was super young, I was 12 years old. And I shared a room with my two sisters and my one sister and I, we had bunk beds and I was on the top bunk. And I remember I had really no symptoms up until this point, but we went to bed for the night, and I remember sitting straight up in bed right out of a dead sleep, racing, heart, chest pain.

[00:15:26] Lindsey: I couldn't catch my breath. And I started to panic. I was sitting there in the dark and I like got down the ladder. Went downstairs. My mom used to lie down on the couch and watch TV at night, and she'd always have this pink, like Afghan. And I was, debating whether to go down and let her know that something was wrong because that's just kind of how I was raised. I was always very kind of closed off. Kept to myself, always felt really shy and embarrassed and awkward. And Ooh, I don't want to say anything, but I was convinced I was dying, and I just poked my head around the corner. I was like, mom. And she's like, yeah, she looked at me and I'm like, I don't feel good. I can't breathe. I'm having chest pain. And the sweat was just pouring. I wish shaking. And My mom was really concerned. And I remember my dad, he was a midnight shift worker with a railway. So, he was upstairs sleeping. And I guess he heard all the commotion. And I remember my mom putting her hand to my chest to feel my heart. And it was just going so fast. And she was like, oh my God. And she called 9 1 1 because she didn't know what else to do. And when they came, they were asking me questions about, have you used any drugs? And I'm like, no, like I have a kid. Like what? But I was so scared. I was really convinced I was gonna die and I was just crying. And that's what I kept saying over and over again. I don't want to die. I think I'm going to die. And my mom's like, you need to calm down and I'm like, I don't know what's wrong. And so, when you know you guys, Tracey, especially when you're like your symptoms were more in your gut and in your head. From that day on, up until I was 19. So, from 12 to 19, it was daily, daily anxiety, physical symptoms chest pain racing heart. At one point I couldn't swallow. So, I was having difficulty eating and my parents would make me multiple appointments at various doctors and physically everything was fine. And the thing that I was told, I'll never forget. And I was told this often, especially by my mom, like suck it up, it's all in your head. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know what's happening, you know? And I, and I would just sit and cry a lot because I'm like, I don't feel well. And I know this isn't normal and I don't know why this is happening. And I would literally just battle through this day in and day out. And I started to isolate myself. I wouldn't go out with friends. I would want to stay home. I remember we used to go to my Bob and my auntie and my Bob that live together and we would have sleepovers and I stopped wanting to go as well, because I would just have all of these insane physical symptoms, numb hands, tingling, arms, chest pain shortness of breath. And I was constantly checking my pulse. It was not good. And then got through high school and remember I was never somebody who drank, I never did any drugs. I didn't do any of that smoke. I was a perfectionist. So that coupled with this. Feeling these physical symptoms. It was really a tough time. That was probably one of the hardest times and that consumed a lot of my childhood, my teenage years. And then I finished high school. I applied into university, got accepted and did one year of university. That was really tough. Some days I remember getting on the transit bus, sitting down at the time we had, Walkman’s putting my headphones on. I would literally just be listening to music and immediately a panic attack would hit me. They would pull the bell to get off the bus, cross the street, wait for the bus to come back the other way. And I would go home, and I would leave class. I would leave certain situations because of the overwhelming physical symptoms. And you literally feel like you're going to die. Your mind is racing. You have this need to just get out. And it's really scary and embarrassing. I was always embarrassed and afraid that this was going to happen in public and in front of people. When I started my second year of university, I actually dropped out because of anxiety. It was so bad. I couldn't even go to class. And that's when I went and made an appointment with my doctor. And then my doctor was like, I think we should start you on some medication. And I was like, I don't care what we need to do. I can't feel like this. I don't know what's wrong. It's not all in my head. And I would try things like breathing techniques. And I was somebody who went to the gym and it just, it was really, really difficult. So, the doctor prescribed me a medication called Paxil, very, very low dose, 10 milligrams. He said, okay, you're going to take it once a day. And you might feel a little funny at first. I remember I used to work. We have a store here called the bay. I think you guys probably have that store. And I would work at the bay downtown here in Winnipeg. There were some shifts, I had to leave, and I remember starting that medication. So, I'm going to university, I'm working like I'm doing all the things, but I started that medication while I was in university and working. And it literally changed my life. Like for the better the symptoms, after a couple of weeks, it took a bit the symptoms started to just disappear. I was able to sleep. I did go through a bit where I couldn't sleep for. Four to six months at a time. I wouldn't sleep and it was hell on earth yeah, so the doctor was like, well, you've got generalized anxiety disorder, just like Kelly. taking this medication, it changed my life. In fact, I'm still on medication to this day and I've tried to stop taking it and things can be okay for a bit. And then all of the things start to happen again. And I'm like, I get scared. I'm like, Nope, nope. We're not going to do this. But here's the thing. I was never a drinker in high school. And then once I got on this medicine, I did go back. I graduated dental hygiene and started working, still taking the medication. I would have anxiety sometimes, but not to the degree that was happening, before. But when I was in university and I met the boyfriend that I had, then I remember feeling really anxious in social situations, like out with friends, going out to the bars and I would drink, you're not supposed to drink on this medication. these kind of SSRI medications, when you mix them with alcohol, it lowers your tolerance to alcohol. It increases drowsiness, impulsive behavior. And causes blackouts. I would black out all the time and I would black out not that I would consume massive amounts of alcohol any more than, you know, the next person that I was hanging out with, and they wouldn't black out. And do you think I would stop drinking though? No. It's really detrimental to health. Like it can be fatal mixing these kinds of medicines with alcohol, but I kept drinking and at one point it went from me drinking cocktails and things at the bar. And then making the switch to red wine in my late twenties, early thirties, and that mixed with the medication. Ridiculous. Lots of blacking out lots of impulsive behavior, lots of acting out of character. And now, alcohol is a depressant. I'm taking an antidepressant medication to help with my anxiety. I'm having a chemical shit storm in my head going on. Like that is really scary. So, my liver is trying to process this medicine. and the alcohol, the chemicals in my brain are all screwed up, but no, I kept drinking Going through the divorce that I went through and stuff and using alcohol to numb out that became really scary. That was my moment when I tripped here at my house and broke my damn collarbone, hello. That's the combination. Alcohol already affects your motor skills and stuff, but combined with the medication game over, it makes you really drowsy. How else do I say it? It just, your motor skills are really impacted and not in a good way. So, once I quit drinking because I would also experience the next day hangs it. And my anxiety with. Crazy panic attacks to a funny thing. Cause I'm taking this medication to help with those. And also waking up to messages. Like we need to talk about last night. I have your purse. Are you okay? Holy shit. What did I say? W where, what did I do? I'm at home. Oh my God. Did I drive? No, I didn't.

[00:24:23] Lindsey: Okay. What did I say? Oh my God. Scrolling in my phone, looking through text messages. Like whom did I call? Oh my God. I called this person. I don't even remember what did I say? It was a disaster. So, when I quit drinking, I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms at all stopping drinking alcohol, but I noticed in the first few weeks, like a real decrease in. Anxiety symptoms. And now I can't imagine going back and mixing alcohol with this medication. I mean, they even have a warning label on the damn bottle that says, do not mix alcohol. And I just wonder how many people are taking these types of medications and are mixing alcohol with them. It's not safe.

[00:25:04] Lindsey: They can go 

[00:25:05] Kelly: a lot. 

[00:25:07] Lindsey: Yeah. So that is my experience with anxiety and alcohol and the shitstorm chemical cocktail I was making in my brain while consuming both of those at the same time. But and you know, I want to say this. I was really embarrassed about my anxiety. It was something that I was told when I was a kid. Suck it up. It's all in your head. This isn't real. You're making this up, just snap out of it. And for me it was more physical symptoms and I actually feel like genetically. I don't know if there's a pre-existing chemical imbalance or maybe something happened as a kid, you know, nothing bad happened to me as a kid. I don't want to be there, but like, no. Oh know, I know. And that's the thing. I, I don't know why that first panic attack when I was 12. I still don't know why that happened. It's not like there was a big traumatic event that happened. I wasn't abused as a kid. My dad was a drinker and had some issues with alcohol, but it wasn't yeah, I don't understand still why that happened. So, I think I need to maybe dig a little deeper with that, but. Yeah, that was a really tough time for me. And that was how I spent most of my life. And then my mom was like, take this Cod liver oil. It's going to help you. She was trying to do natural things, take this supplement, take this vitamin. I think she did. I don't remember, but she says to me, I asked if you wanted to go see a therapist, I'm like, you asked a 12-year-old. If they want to go see a therapist, it should have just been we're, we're going here. You know? And of course, I said, no, I didn't want to, but I was just so embarrassed. Oh yeah. That's my point. I was really embarrassed about the anxiety, and I felt really alone I felt like nobody understood me because even my sister was like, what the hell is wrong with you? I had friends that were like, you complain a lot. I'm like, yeah, I don't feel well. I just never feel good. So, 

[00:27:06] Mike: so, you were crying out for help, but directly 

[00:27:12] Lindsey: and working really hard to hide it. I remember just working so hard to hide it from everybody. 

[00:27:18] Mike: Well, that's the anxiety, fueling your anxiety, fueling your anxiety to hide that your anxiety it's like a bloody feel. 

[00:27:27] Lindsey: And then I was also embarrassed about being on medication. I've never openly talked about it as much as I have right now. There might be people listening that are like, oh my God, you take a medication because there's a stigma that goes with that too. Right. But yeah, 

[00:27:41] Tracey: I'm sure you're helping a lot more people Linds and sadly, I think. It's like a generational thing. You know, there wasn't as much awareness when we were growing up and even my daughter suffered from anxiety too, when she was younger a lot. And I try to talk to my mom about it and she didn't understand it either because I just don't think that our parents, that generation was aware. And I don't think it was talked about. I don't think it was understood at all. 

[00:28:11] Mike: I don't think understood more than anything. Like, look at what we know now about, for example, sports and the impact of physical sports, hockey and fighting and the amount and the number of players, all the players that have taken their own lives is, and they tended to be fighters. I bet that a lot of those guys took some form of antidepressant and most of them, if not all of them, when you look back in the history, dealt with it by alcohol, that was the only way there's stories of guys that were fighters that got anxiety going to the games, knowing that they had to fight, because that was their role. a little bit off topic, but a topic in nature when we're talking about anxiety and alcohol. So, I think that the more that comes out in the, in the medical field that says, these things are connected to anxiety. like you talked about with your mom, not giving you the most positive encouragement that you were hoping for now.

[00:29:13] Mike: And like Tracey said, well, maybe she knows in theory, maybe that they didn't have that, skill set to deal with it. So hopefully, these things are progressing for the next generations and generations down the road that we learn more about how the brain works and the functions do it, not just with anxiety, but with self-confidence, with concussions, with et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think it's something that we definitely need to focus on moving forward because there's so many different health ailments that we really don't know a lot about, and we are just. Hypothesized that. Well, you know, there's this one person that says it's this, it could be, but there needs to be more research, I think, directly to it.

[00:29:55] Mike: So 

[00:29:56] Kelly: yeah. 

[00:29:57] Lindsey: And I think too, being of the drinking age and university and stuff, being on a medication, that's not really a hot answer. When you're going out with, somebody or you're with a group of friends and everybody's having a drink, I'm not going to be like, oh, I, I can't drink. Or I don't want to, everyone's like, are you, are you kidding? What do you mean? Come on 

[00:30:18] Mike: Hold my glass of wine, I've got to take my bowl and wash it back with my, 

[00:30:22] Lindsey: oh my God, no kidding. You know, for me, I was such a goody two-shoes like, I was afraid to have a cigarette and afraid to drink and afraid, but here I was, right at the end of my drinking career, just every morning taking a medication.

[00:30:36] Lindsey: And then, you know what, on the weekends, I'm like, it's two bottles of red wine night tonight. Are you Riddick? Like, what's wrong with you? That's not okay. It's not healthy. It's actually really dangerous. But 

[00:30:48] Tracey: do you ever think Linds that while you were drinking, did you think oh, all of a sudden, I have more anxiety again, is it related to the alcohol? did you ever think that? 

[00:31:00] Lindsey: I definitely knew that it was I remember just feeling like garbage the next day. Total garbage and then thinking to myself, oh God, what are you doing? I'm never gonna drink again. This is so stupid. And I just remember feeling like really concerning physical symptoms and, oh my God, I can't do this anymore, but you recover for the next four days. And Friday night comes around and you had a really stressful week at work, and you drive to get that bottle of wine. But I also want people, I think I really want people to understand and hear. Cause I think at the time when my doctor prescribed the medication, that was the mentality, take this pill, it will help you and take all your symptoms away and come back and see me in six weeks and tell me how you're feeling, but there wasn't any, the doctor didn't encourage any therapy or any sort of meditation or breath work. There was nothing like that. That was suggested. It was taking this pill. This magic pill is going to help you. And let me know how you're feeling because we can always increase the dose and I'm like, holy moly. And I just thought, holy crap, this works, this really works. But I want to say, 

[00:32:21] Kelly: wait, Lindsey, did your doctor ever say don't drink on this?

[00:32:24] Tracey: Yeah. That's the other thing 

[00:32:28] Lindsey: that I don't remember that emphasized, although it is in the side effects, like when they give you the, the printout it's listed in there. Right. And it does say on the bottle, do not consume alcohol. 

[00:32:41] Mike: Did the pharmacist tell you not to drink, 

[00:32:44] Lindsey: I'm pretty sure it was, it might've been mentioned, but it wasn't like emphasized, right? Like here's the 

[00:32:51] Kelly: major, major rabbit hole for me right now. But I don't know if we're going to go. I had many, many times been at my doctor's office with her holding the pad of paper wanting to give me a prescription, right? Yeah. Yes, 

[00:33:04] Lindsey: yes. I know. So, you can't just take a pill, you have to do the other things. So, for me, what works for me. Taking a medication and doing the other things, right? Don't just expect to take a magic pill to make everything better for you. You've got to live a healthy lifestyle. You've got to move your body. You've got to drink water. You have to be mindful of what you're putting in your body. Yoga breath work. If you know that you are prone to anxiety and symptoms and feelings of anxiety, be mindful of what you are surrounding yourself with and who you're hanging out with. You've got to do the other things. So, I just want people to know that and not to be ashamed of it. If you take a medication, I'm telling you this right now, don't stop it. Cold Turkey. Cause I've actually done that, and you will have major withdrawal symptoms. Do not do that. You have to gradually taper off and do it, with the advice of you. Physician but make sure you're doing the other things and please don't drink alcohol or do drugs end rant. 

[00:34:08] Kelly: Where were you 

[00:34:09] Mike: for? Where were you? 20 years ago? 

[00:34:12] Lindsey: I know, I know God. So that's my experience. 

[00:34:17] Tracey: Well, I think you will reach a lot of people with that experience Linds, and I think you might be surprised how many people can relate and appreciate you sharing that. My heart breaks for you. That that's how you grew up. And that's how you felt growing up, because I can't imagine I had like maybe two panic attacks in my life, and they are a terrible feeling.

[00:34:39] Lindsey: I wouldn't have them. 

[00:34:40] Tracey: Yeah, I could totally relate. When you are saying, you just had to go, having that flight sort of response. That's how I felt as well. And I can't imagine having that every day. I had anxiety pretty much every day when I was drinking and I couldn't take it so yeah, my heart breaks for you that you had to go through that. So good for you that you're at a point where you've been able to manage it and do what you gotta do. If medication is helping, then you take the medication, you know, 

[00:35:12] Lindsey: I just feel so good, not drinking and so good exercising every day. I work out every day and read and breath work. And, you know, we all go through situations in life where you have more stress, whether, like me, you know, went through a divorce. That was hell, but, drinking alcohol every day or every weekend or, or however you consume it that doesn't help you at all. It actually makes it worse. Going to university going to school, that's a stressful time. Be kind to yourself and be gentle to yourself, and also understand too that if someone's behavior is off or they're complaining a lot, or maybe they're ditching out on plans a lot, maybe check in with them because those are signs of somebody struggling with anxiety. If they're avoiding, hanging out with friends, they're withdrawing just maybe if they're even increasing their alcohol use, things like that, you know what we got to watch out for each other and, and help each other out. 

[00:36:09] Tracey: Those a really good point Linds yeah. Yeah. Do we want to talk about some of the? Things to do that can help anxiety things that help relieve. So not that I have used all or even some of these tactics, but I did read up on some of these because I thought they were interesting. And maybe I could get your take on them guys. So, and maybe you guys have tried some of them, so we all know breathing. There's lots of breathing techniques and that's definitely something I've tried. And I'm sure all of you have tried. Kelly, I know you practice yoga. So, and Mike and Kelly, both meditate. Do you meditate Linz? 

[00:36:50] Lindsey: I do. I'm not consistent with it and I don't even want to say that out loud because I have to say I am consistent with meditation, but I love it when I do it and I like to do it before bed. I just feel. Relaxed it really. And it's a practice too. If you, do it and then you think, well, that was crap. That didn't do anything. I don't feel any different. You've got to stick with it because, I think if you've been anxious for so long, it's going to take a little bit of. I don't know what the word is decompressing. And so 

[00:37:22] Lindsey: It's a practice. 

[00:37:23] Lindsey: It's a practice for your body to relax. Right? Cause these are all physiological things. And even the deep breathing thing, I know, when I'm really anxious and I'm, about to go into court for a divorce thing, my heart's going a mile a minute and I'm trying to deep breathe, and it might not help right away. But it's just a physiological thing that deep breath does do something, chemically. So, 

[00:37:46] Tracey: so, I had a couple other things that are supposed to be kind of immediate relief things. If you're in a scenario where you're feeling a lot of anxiety or even panic coming on. So, I'm not sure if you guys have ever heard about tapping. That's a technique where you tap different areas of your face and your chest, and those are Meridian points. There's also a butterfly technique. That's tapping as well. And that's on your chest where you cross your hands, like a butterfly and then tap your chest. There's drop your jaw, apparently that stimulates your vagus nerve which helps relax you. And then I've also heard shaking and dancing, just shaking, your energy out or dancing because it's just kind of like a distraction for your mind. And it's forcing your body to do something else and think about something else. Splash cold water on your face. Now this is supposed to be a psychological Relief. And it's an old practice that's called diving reflex. It apparently immediately lowers your heart rate. This would be, if you were experiencing a panic attack Vicks put Vicks on yourself, apparently the smell of menthol distracts your thoughts and opening up your breathing airways. Apparently can help as well. 

[00:39:11] Kelly: I would replace that with peppermint essential 

[00:39:14] Lindsey: oil lavender essential oils, too. Yeah. 

[00:39:18] Tracey: Yeah. Those are great. Yeah, this just happened to be, I mean, I think people with kids, a lot of kids have fixed candy, for sure. I know my daughter used to use Vicks a lot when she was younger and I thought it was more because she was congested, but it probably did help her because, like I said, she had a lot of anxiety, especially around bedtime. So, I'm not shocked that that might help a cold ice cube either put it in your mouth or hold it in your hand again. I think it's a distraction and then a physical response that takes you kind of out of your current state. And lastly, of course, my favorite Chamomile Tea 

[00:40:02] Kelly: what did you call it? In the other episode, Tracey 

[00:40:04] Kelly: I said, chamomile 

[00:40:07] Tracey: tea is much better for relieving anxiety than a fucking glass of wine.

[00:40:14] Tracey: It's so true. 

[00:40:16] Tracey: So, any herbal to you actually? Yeah. 

[00:40:20] Lindsey: Have you guys heard of this thing? I'm going to, I feel like I'm going to screw this up, but name five things. You can smell five things. You can see five things, you can taste five things, you can hear name four things you can see, like in the moment in the middle of a panic attack, I've read that this technique can be very grounding.

[00:40:41] Tracey: I think it's called the 5, 4, 3, 2 1. Oh, maybe once I saw that one as well. Yeah. Yeah. So have you guys tried any of those techniques outside of the breathing 

[00:40:54] Lindsey: lavender oil? Put it on my wrists and behind my ears and just under my nose. I've done the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 technique rose quartz gemstones. My mom actually, when I was, I started having really bad panic attacks when I was a kid, she got rose quartz and put it underneath my pillow and she said sleep with these, your pillow, but yeah, rose quartz, gemstones meditation and breathing. And I've also done therapy too, and cognitive behavioral therapy. So, if you are struggling, do not be afraid or ashamed to reach out for help and see a professional because that's what they do. 

[00:41:37] Tracey: And did we find these things helpful? 

[00:41:40] Lindsey: Super helpful. 

[00:41:41] Tracey: Okay. Good. Mike, you meditate. 

[00:41:43] Mike: Yes.

[00:41:44] Tracey: Anything else you do? 

[00:41:46] Lindsey: Drinks, 

[00:41:46] Mike: water. I drink water for sure. I've learned to like to sit with it, let it run its course because I found that I just found that. The more frequent. I let it run its course that whole fight or flight subsided. And I think definitely meditation helps with that. I used to smoke weed, but I used to smoke weed thinking that that was that helped. I mean, I won't deny it. I think it helped at certain points and times no doubt, but it's all in moderation and the amount of weed that I was smoking definitely was not a contributor it wasn't like a medication that, oh, I'm having a panic attack, smoke a joint or something like that. I think that it exasperated things for sure, but now, I honestly, mostly sit with it and, let it do what it's going to do, because it's just, going to go away eventually. I think it's like exercising the more you do it, the stronger you get out or the better you get at it or whatever you want to call it. When Lindsay was talking about her situation, I remembered now when I sat back and think about it, I used to go and lay on the couch when I got home from work, because I hated my job. And I think hating your job magnifies things for sure. And I remember that there were many, many nights where my chest would lock up. Like literally lock up. I thought, what the hell is going on? I thought I had frozen and then I would make the slightest move and I would get the loudest crack. I felt like I broke my sternum every single time. But I didn't know what it was, but then as I got better at experiencing a lot of BS and trying different things, I think Reiki helped me at a certain point. Yeah. And I think as a guy, if I told a lot of my buddies, the stuff that I did, I could assure you that I'm the butt of every joke. Now I have big shoulders and I can easily dish out the rebuttals. I know a lot of guys can't, they just, it's not in them that that's a defense mechanism for me. Tracey knows me pretty well. And I think I'm pretty sharp with my tongue when I need to be as you know, back off. But I think as men, we need to. be honest about these things. I think, especially guys in relationships, I can't speak from experience right now, but I know from the relationships that I've been in that I think if I was honest with the partner that maybe that would have helped me in some ways, instead of me reacting the way I had reacted and just leave me alone, I'll deal with some of my own, I don't need your help when really I needed damn h prepared to admit it until, I finally crashed and burned and like, Lindsay, I got help. And it was four years, once a week. I still say to other people, it was the best thing I ever did. I miss going, I don't go anymore. My time ended. I miss going, not because of. I need help now, but because I really enjoyed conversing and talking, and I think that's one of the things we lack that contributes to her anxiety these days is not having human interaction. I just, I sit with it now and meditate.

[00:44:47] Tracey: That's good. 

[00:44:48] Mike: Yeah. When it's warm out, I go for walks. 

[00:44:51] Tracey: It's like this too shall pass, right?

[00:44:54] Mike: Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent trust life, man. Trust it. Trust it. Trust it just. 

[00:45:00] Tracey: Kel do you have anything to add? 

[00:45:02] Kelly: I love that. Knowing that everything is temporary and, I feel emotions in a big way. And what did I used to do? I would drink through all of them, shove it down, shove it down. And knowing now that, everything is temporary, and everything passes just like you guys are saying, it's always going to flow through you. Sometimes it takes longer but trying to control it and trying to shove it down is just going to make anxiety worse. So, and also, recognizing that I made a switch, and it actually wasn't that long ago, maybe a year or two ago, realizing that I was really trying to control my anxiety by trying to control my thoughts. But instead, I switched from trying to understand what it felt like in my body. So being more in tune with my body than my mind really helped me. And then of course that's where the breath work comes in and all of that. So, I, it felt like a tightness in my chest. So, if you can really get to the point where you identify where you're feeling it in your body, and it was almost always a tightness in my chest and just doing that meditation and breathing right into that spot, that's helped me a ton rather than trying to control all my thoughts. And recognizing that, there's a couple of things that I do still that will bring on my anxiety and that is trying to fast forward. So, trying to figure out the future, which is such a waste of energy, but I still do it. And then also for me, it's staying in indecision. So, if I have something coming up that I need to make a decision about or think I need to make a decision about that gives me anxiety. So, my self talk around that now is I don't need to decide that right now. And it can be like the smallest things, it can be when am I going to make this appointment? Or when am I going to. Go do this thing or do this thing for work, either make the decision right now or tell yourself you don't need to make that decision right now. But staying in the middle there for me is it's a tough spot. So just being really kind to myself and knowing that I don't need to decide right now, and lots of, you know, of course we have to have those replacements for what we were using the wine for. So, we've talked about this and lots of episodes or self care episodes. I know what grounds me; I would say to anybody listening, figure out what grounds you pay attention to, how you feel when you're in nature. How do you feel when you have a bath, try all of the things and try and figure out what it is that does ground you? Sometimes it's just drinking a glass of water or a cup of tea, the Chamomile Tea and of course for me and meditation and breath work, which is all in one encompassing thing for me is my biggest savior for my anxiety.

[00:47:55] Tracey: Thanks for saying that about the physical part Kel because I never looked at it that way. I always thought of it more as a mental thing. And I never saw it that way. And you just kind of gave me an aha moment there. Huh? Yeah, it 

[00:48:10] Kelly was huge for me. That was probably the biggest thing that's ever happened to me. As far as my anxiety goes is realizing that it's not so much, trying to control because there is another anxiety thing. When you find yourself trying to control everything in your life, that's your anxiety talking. Yeah, we can, we can really get into our body and, and heal that way. And that's why I like that makes it Reiki too, because I think that can be really huge for people.

[00:48:38] Kelly: Yes. It's your heart chakra and Lindsey is rose quartz. 

[00:48:42] Kelly: That's what your heart, that's what opens your heart chakra. That's the gemstone you want to use for that. And that's another thing you can play around with go to the gemstone store and ask some questions. Those hold energy 

[00:48:54] Lindsey: and hold them feel. Yeah. 

[00:48:57] Kelly: Incense, there's all kinds of things out there. Yes. 

[00:49:03] Mike: Thinking about it, new perspective, different cultures, do different things to combat these, these situations. I'm sure some people would say, oh God, I tried Iowaska as an example and shit. And it changed my life. I think we know a little bit about it. I mean, I don't know if you guys do. It helped a lot of people, not only with anxiety, but other things. There are many things, Chinese. Yeah. Well, holy yeah, that's a whole other topic, but yeah, 

[00:49:30] Kelly: we could do a whole episode. Look it up. People do something 

[00:49:35] Mike let's, let's emphasize, not high grabs the mushrooms and hope our anxiety and stuff.

[00:49:43] Kelly: There's, there's some amazing research around. There is some amazing research around anxiety, PTSD, depression, and using 

[00:49:51] Mike: with Alex and becoming more of an unacceptable mainstream thing. Having to look on the street corner for the guy who's got mushrooms and hide it, you know, that's, at least back when we were in high school type of thing, but 

[00:50:05] Lindsey: and pay attention to the like Kelly and Mike, or saying pay attention to your body, those little things the more headaches, neck pain, shoulder pain, upset stomach that, that, Tracey gets that feeling in her stomach in that, in that pit pay attention, and oftentimes we just try to push past them, push through and ignore and keep going on the path that we're on. Those things that your body, that's your body screaming like, Hey, hello. It's just me. Something's wrong. You know, like, and take a step back and be like, you know, something's not right. I've got this tightness in my throat. I feel like I've got palpitations happening or I've my stomach's upset all the time or my knee hurts. My shoulder hurts. There's something not right here. This is your body telling you, you need to pay attention to me. I'm trying to communicate with you, and you might need to figure out what's going on and take a break.

[00:51:10] Lindsey: Make some time for you. Relax. I'm going to walk, 

[00:51:14] Kelly: Those grounding, those grounding things 

[00:51:18] Lindsey: don't ignore those things. Don't ignore them. 

[00:51:21] Mike: I thought of one thing. Do you trace, was that food? Mm. And how it can really throw your brain off, like your whole balance for sure. Your, your mitochondria if it gets all out of whack, you are 

[00:51:36] Lindsey: your serotonin. I actually heard that on a podcast, the most serotonin is actually made in your gut. I was like, what the heck? 

[00:51:45] Kelly: Yeah. Imagine what alcohol does to your gut. Oh, and sugar and yeah. Yeah. I used to crave. Did you guys crave I used to crave comfort food when I was really anxious or depressed and I found that it's hardly, yeah, it's getting less and less. Like, it's not a never, but as I figure, that's the thing, like, you can't rush through all this stuff. It's not, you're not going to snap your fingers and be like, oh, I went to yoga. I have no more anxiety. 

[00:52:10] Lindsey: It's a process. 

[00:52:11] Kelly: It's a process. But I that's the kind of thing I noticed now, the further I go on my journey, the less I would crave a comfort.

[00:52:19] Kelly: Love that. 

[00:52:20] Lindsey: Yeah. 

[00:52:21] Mike: Yeah. Has anybody ever done any, not intermittent fasting, but fasting like a 24 hour 47? I 

[00:52:28] Kelly: have starvation anxiety. So, not when am I having my next snack? Yeah. I have heard amazing things about that though. 

[00:52:41] Mike: Oh, I experienced, I've got a couple of extended fasts and you got to get through the first kind of 36 hour cause your body's withdrawing, right? You're detoxified and man, the energy levels, the clarity that just the overall frigging good vibration that I felt from it was, I can't even explain it. It's I should do it more. 

[00:53:08] Kelly: How long did you do it for 

[00:53:10] Mike: I've done it. I need a couple of extended ones. The first one I did was 48 hours. Oh, my God, what I had the anxiety of. Okay. I got 48 hours, but it was good. And then I was like, Nope, you see, I did the 48 hour one when I was such a stubborn mule that I only thing that I did to get myself through it was I smoked a joint, but I would smoke it and then put it out. After I thought you fool, how do you think that you'd be able to fast and then exasperate your hunger by smoking marijuana? Like what is wrong with you? And one of my points in saying that is it. That much of a stubbornness said, okay, you got to get rid of everything. You got to break free from all these crutches that you been using to get through your days. But the longest one I ever did was I did five days and yeah. Yup. Yup. Oh, wow. 

[00:54:08] Kelly: Did you, could you have coffee? 

[00:54:10] Mike: No, all I did was drink water and I drink water and I had some Himalayan pink, salt, and some, no salt to keep my electrolytes in. Check. 

[00:54:20] Tracey: Doesn't drink coffee though. 

[00:54:22] Mike: I have never drank.

[00:54:24] Kelly: Oh my God. Where are you in the bed? 

[00:54:27] Kelly: Where you like were you even I'm functioning. 

[00:54:31] Mike: Yeah. What the word worked and yeah, went for walks everywhere. I think it's all about. Pushing yourself out of levels of comfort, right? What we've all done. Right? We live the lifestyle that alcohol was a part of our daily functioning self. And then we push ourselves because really, I think you have to admit, you have to push yourself to get to that point. Say, enough is enough. I'm going to try something I've never tried before. And they, one day, two day three, we've all got their one bloody day at time. If you need to get a calendar and mark an extra day.

[00:55:13] Kelly: I did that. I did that with my drinking. I had calendars up on the wall. 

[00:55:17] Mike: Yeah. Visual, these visual aids help. If you need to, like we've said before, join a group, get with one other person and just say, encourage each other. You know, like I did it by myself. It's a, I'm not saying that no one's any better than anybody else, but that's the way I chose to do it. I wanted to try to do it by myself. Now. I think a lot of that is because I didn't like asking for help. I still have troubles. I don't like asking for help. And I think that that comes from somewhat of an upbringing. And, you know, you don't ask, we don't ask for help. We can do this on our own or things were put on me to do. I think if I had to do it all over again and hopefully knock-on wood, I never had. But I would seek some sort of a partnership to say, hey, let's encourage each other. And let's get this done. Let's pop each other's tires and put each other on, on, on his shoulders and let's, let's get it going. That's why we want to encourage people to reach out message us, communicate with us. I know the girls spend a lot of time with the socials. 

[00:56:21] Kelly: Yeah. Like connect in the Facebook group with each other, to, with other members in that group. 

[00:56:26] Tracey: No, that's what it's there for, right? Yeah. That's for people to connect.

[00:56:31] Mike: Yeah. Share it. if you can share to somebody that you think that, you know, because it doesn't want to admit they need help or some type of beer maybe someone will listen to one episode or five minutes. Two minutes, whatnot, and say, hmm, somebody said something that resonated with me and maybe that'll help them get on their path. We'll all get there at the right time. But I think we, as a society need to encourage one another and help one another. We don't, we're getting better at it, I think, but I don't think we do it enough. I think we're caught up in a lot of different distractions. We're in a busy world, busiest world we've ever been in, while I agree with that, there's so many distractions and it's like Lindsay said earlier, if you see somebody that you think needs help reach out and if your little voice says tomorrow, or even maybe they go, or I don't want to impede, it's tough. But you know, It's that whole human connection. We need to circle back and get to the way we were before bloody computers took over and cell phones. I think we really do go have coffee forget going to the bar or going out for wine or whatnot, get together for a coffee or tea and have a good old three-hour conversation and go shit. Where does time go? I think we need to do more. 

[00:57:45] Tracey: Yeah, well, we didn't touch on this either, but social media is a whole other beast for anxiety. 

[00:57:51] Kelly: That's what I was thinking about when you were talking about like with kids having anxiety. Cause they've got a freaking screen in front of them all the time. You 

[00:58:00] Mike: do an episode on social media as effects of contributing to our drinking.

[00:58:05] Tracey: We agree. We should probably because we've touched on social media a couple of times. One very last thing I want to mention too, as far as. Taking care of your anxiety is good sleep. 

[00:58:17] Kelly: Yes, 

[00:58:18] Tracey: because I can definitely say that my anxiety was always increased if I didn't sleep well. Yeah. Just like a hangover would be 10 times worse.

[00:58:28] Kelly: Yeah. 

[00:58:29] Tracey: So good sleep. 

[00:58:31] Kelly: I agree. All right. Well on that note, Mike, 

[00:58:34] Mike: well, we've come to an end of the skinny leg’s episode. Number 11. I think we hit on a few things. We love to hear the comments. We'd love to hear show ideas. Hey, we love to hear anybody who wants to join us reach out, share your story, if your story touches one person. That's one more person that could be trying to find their best self. And that's what we try to do here in an indirect way where we're sharing our lives and our stories and trying to find a way to give back and in theory. I want to say thanks to all the ladies, to share all your tips, tricks, and your experiences with the wonderful world of anxiety. And I think we will be reconnecting with you on another episode. Thanks very much. 

[00:59:24] Tracey: Okay. Good night, guys. Thanks. 

[00:59:26] Kelly: Thank you. Bye

[00:59:28] Closing

[00:59:28] Kelly: Thank you for listening. Please give us a five-star rating like and subscribe, share on social media, and tell your friends. We love getting your feedback and ideas of what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes of the laugh life podcast. If you yourself are living alcohol free and want to share your story here, please reach out.