LAF Life (Living Alcohol Free)

Deb McNairn, Season 2 Ep.11

February 12, 2023 Deb McNairn Season 2 Episode 11
LAF Life (Living Alcohol Free)
Deb McNairn, Season 2 Ep.11
Show Notes Transcript

In Ep. 11 we welcome special guest, Deborah McNairn. Deb is a Yoga and Barre instructor who joined us to share her journey to recovery. After a scary trip to the hospital due to severe alcohol withdrawal, Deb was finally faced with the decision to give up her daily alcohol habit.  Deb's path to recovery lead her to discovering Yoga.  After learning more about the connection between yoga and recovery she decided to turn her passion into a mission, by becoming a Y12sr Yoga Leader. Now with 11yrs sobriety, Deb has been actively helping others that struggle with addiction by offering Recovery Workshops and Community Meetings that incorporate gentle yoga techniques and open discussions about addiction recovery. To find out more about Deb and the programs she offers check out the links below.

Connect with Deb on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/shadowlandsyoga/
Learn more about Y12sr Yoga practice:
www.y12sr.com
Deb is currently teaching Barre Classes at Yogashala Wellness Centre: wwwyogashalawaterdown.com

Deb's Top 11 Recovery Movie Recommendations:
Postcards from the Edge
Flight
A Star is Born
Amy
Rocketman
Leaving Las Vegas
When a Man Loves a Woman
Crazy Heart
Walk the Line
Bohemian Rhapsody
The Fighter





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Connect with your podcasters. We'd love to hear from you!
Tracey:
https://www.instagram.com/tnd1274/
Kelly:
https://www.instagram.com/pamperedkel/
Lindsey:
https://www.instagram.com/hariklindsey/

**Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this episode are not professional or medical opinions. If you are struggling with an addiction please contact a medical professional for help.

Music provided by Premium Beats:
https://www.premiumbeat.com
Song: Rise and Thrive
Artist: Young Presidents

Resources:
Wellness Togethe...

Kelly:

welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, Mike Sutton and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories. We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support.

Tracey:

Welcome everyone to the LAF Life podcast. Tonight is episode 11, and we have another wonderful guest joining us I'm very excited to have Deborah on. How Deborah and I crossed paths was that I was actually Trying out a new yoga studio here in Watertown. Shout out to Yoga Shala and I noticed that they were offering some sort of recovery yoga seminar. And I thought, oh, well that's interesting. I should definitely check that out. And of course, lo and behold, I had missed it. It had already come and gone. It happened, So I thought, well, I think this is a person that I'd like to connect with, so I talked to the owners and they gave me Deb's information and I told them that I wanted to connect with her because I thought that we would have some stuff in common and she would align well with our podcast. So I was super excited to meet with Deb and ask her if she wanted to be a guest. I got to have coffee with Deb and hear about her story, which I thought was amazing. I'm super excited that she's here with us tonight to share it with everyone. So Deb, I know you wanted to start off talking about movies. Why don't you start off with that?

Deb:

Yeah, so sometimes when I'm helping someone else in recovery, I make like little lists of things that they could maybe listen to or watch or, and obviously it's up to them whether or not they wanna do it, but, I came up with this idea to have top 10 movies in no particular order about addiction and addiction recovery. So I thought I would share it with you guys. Okay. So let's see. So number one, this is in no particular order. This is just my brain downloading onto this paper. The first one I really love is flight. So that's Denzel Washington. If you haven't seen it it is time well spent. Rocket Man. I love that movie.

Kelly:

Love, love, love.

Deb:

Leaving Las Vegas with Nicholas Cage. It's pretty intense, but it's really good. A Star's Born, of course. There's a movie. Yeah, there's a movie called when a Man Loves a Woman. It's a while ago. It has Meg Ryan and Andy Garcia in it. Crazy Heart is very good. I'm trying to think of the actor now.

Tracey:

Is that Jeff Bridges?

Deb:

Yes. Thank you. Walk the Line.

Tracey:

Oh yeah, that was a good one too.

Lindsey:

That was a good one.

Deb:

The Fighter is quite good with Christian Bale and Mark Wallberg

Tracey:

mm-hmm.

Deb:

Amy, right? Amy Winehouse. If you haven't seen Amy, it's just called Amy. It's, I mean, I loved it. Let's see. Oh postcards from the Edge. So that one is, I'm gonna say that's like, so that's Meryl Streep.

Lindsey:

Oh, I love her.

Deb:

Shirley McClain. So it's based,

Kelly:

don't remember that being about addiction. Yeah. Huh.

Deb:

It's based on Carrie Fisher. So Carrie Fisher wrote the book and then they made it into a screenplay with Meryl Streep. It's basically like a masterclass on family. Toxicity and addiction and how it just infiltrates, how it tears things apart and then at the end brings it all, sort of brings the people together. It's really cool. It's like a masterclass. That's what I call it. So when I do the addiction seminar, I always play a clip from that one because it's like a snapshot of everything I'm trying to get across. So I just play the clip and everyone's like, oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. So I think that's it.

Kelly:

Cool. Thank you.

Tracey:

That's amazing. Deb, that's a good start. That's a good segue.

Deb:

Oh wait, I missed Bohemian Rhapsody. Did I say Bohemian Rat today?

Kelly:

Oh no, but that is so good too. Yeah.

Deb:

Yeah. I think that's more than 10, but that's okay.

Tracey:

Yeah, you'll have to provide us with the list so I can put it in the show notes.

Deb:

Sure. Yeah. For.

Tracey:

Why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself. Maybe just starting off, Deb, with kind of how your journey began what your relationship with alcohol started as and how you grew up with it, if you did grow up with it, and how that kind of developed into your addiction and then your recovery.

Deb:

Sure. I think I was born with a tendency for seeking something outside to not fill the hole. I don't like that term, but just always felt like I was always looking for something outside of myself so I could live in my own skin, if that makes sense. So I think right out of the gate, I sort of had some underlying issues that manifested differently as I was growing up. And then of course when I had my first drink, it was like a big exhale, right? I was like, oh man, this feels a lot better than how I felt before. And I was young. I think I was maybe in grade seven, I wanna say Yeah, grade six or seven. And so, but I remember feeling a bit scared. I felt, I was intrigued, but I was like, cautiously. a little bit afraid cuz it felt a little too good. And then I thought, well, hmm, I don't know, maybe I'll try that again. And so, it started that way. And of course, through high school there's the experimentation with various things. And to be honest, during high school it didn't really get that bad aside from the party, the partying Right. The usual. And I moved around a lot, so I went to three high schools, so I moved halfway through grade nine, which is like a nightmare, when people start high school, they have they're groups, right? So it was like, oh my gosh. Okay, so now I gotta figure out where I'm gonna fit in here because I don't know anyone and I know none of the girls like me, cuz girls don't ever like the new girl, right? Mm-hmm. because I'm just like, this total, who's this person? So I think, and sometimes you'll hear it the geographical cure, I don't know if you've heard that before, but

Kelly:

No,

Deb:

if you're having like discontented it, try and change something, right? So I think from then, and because I moved again in high school and I was always trying to figure out, okay, well, what actor am I gonna be now? Right. Because by the time I moved to the third high school, I was like, oh, well I'm gonna reinvent myself again. By then, the alcohol played more of a role. So I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be the the troublemaker. Right. So that's what I was for grade 12. And I still had friends. I mean, it's not like I didn't have friends, but I was just trying to figure out where to fit in and who am I gonna be now? Like a chameleon. Ooh, maybe I could be like this and I can fit in here. Or if I don't like that I can go over here. And so, yeah. Grade 12 and then university, everybody drinks in university.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

Started at UBC cuz I graduated high school in Vancouver. So I did one year there and then we moved again and we moved to Ontario and I went to McMaster. And I hooked up with these girls that I knew from years ago when I lived in Watertown. Cause I had one time lived in Watertown. It's really confusing. I moved a lot but they took me back into their circle, which was nice. Cause I didn't really have a circle. And yeah, like it was party time, it was weekend warrior, I don't know, day drinking, you know what I mean? Like, it was a snow day and well, we're gonna drink all day.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

Then when I was in second year university, my parents split up and my dad got quite ill with kidney failure. he had a transplant. Got better, had a heart attack in the hospital, got better, came home and then my parents split up right after. So it was like boom. And then, he remarried quite quickly and within, I think it was a year and a half, he had a massive heart attack and, and died.

Lindsey:

Oh,

Deb:

so there's like the, events, right. That happened like one after the other. And I was like 24, so I was not sort of self-centered part of my life. Right. Going to university and I don't think I fully. dealt with it by alcohol. Right. That's how I dealt with all of it.

Kelly:

Right.

Deb:

And at the time it was fine cuz everybody else around me was drinking. So it wasn't abnormal. But then, I think that event, sort of just the switch. went on, right?

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

That's when it just became, it just got worse and worse and worse. But then I had kids and I didn't drink when I was pregnant, obviously, but I never wanted to. Why? Because half a glass of wine, you know how people say, oh, well you're pregnant, but you can still have half a glass of wine. I was like, well, why would I bother with that?

Kelly:

Right.

Deb:

It's too painful. It just hurts me because I then I can't have anymore.

Lindsey:

Right.

Deb:

You know what I mean? one drink is mm-hmm. too many and 10 is never enough. so after I had my third child I knew I wasn't gonna have any more babies, so I thought, well, bring it on. And I know I wanna drink, so I'm gonna drink and. I did I became a daily drinker. I became a morning drinker when I remember I woke up and I was really hungover of course. And I thought, well, you know what? I think I'm just gonna have a beer and see how I feel thinking, I know this is not normal to do this, right?

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

But hearing about it and knowing that it's gonna solve my problem, I did. And I was like, oh, I have figured out the rest of my life. I know now what to do and this is gonna be my solution now. And that was sort of where it really skyrocketed that it just, outer limits, because once I knew that, then it just snowballed, and well, now I'm gonna hide it. Now I'm gonna plan, now I'm gonna figure out, who's gonna do this for me? Who's gonna do that for me because I can't. And then, the last year I probably drank, I'm gonna say every day, probably for that last year, give or take. And like morning, needed the morning

Kelly:

right?

Deb:

Drink to stop the shakes and stop the nervous system, like on overdrive. I remember, so I went to, I tried to go to bed. it was New Year's Day. And I thought, okay, well, and my husband's like, you just need to go to bed. And I was like, okay. So I went to bed and I tried to go to bed like a normal person, you know, like 1130 or whatever, and, and go to sleep. And I started to, I think I had finished my drink, I wanna say 45 minutes an hour. And I went to bed and I started to have a panic attack. So, I was starting to have I guess they call it delirium, Tremon. I don't, I, my nervous system was like on overdrive and I thought I was gonna die. And I said to my husband, you have to call an ambulance. You need to call an ambulance. Now I feel like I'm even just talking about it. I can feel the panic. And so they took me in the ambulance. And of course I lied to the nurse or the, I don't remember a whole lot. I remember looking at the clock when I was lying in the gurney and I think it was like midnight or whatever. And my husband just said, take her. Like, just take her. And my kids were sleeping and they didn't put the sirens on, thank goodness. I didn't tell them, I didn't say, well, you know, I'm in alcohol withdrawal and I need detox. They gave me oxygen and the doctor came and saw me and he gave me a chest x-ray cuz I had just gotten over pneumonia. Mm-hmm. Cause I was sick from the inside out. So the doctor sent me home cuz my chest x-ray was, I think he told me I had bronchitis. I was like, oh, okay. And I called my mom cuz I had no other way of getting home. It was like four in the morning, she came, picked me up and dropped me off at home. And I sat down and I had a drink. There was half a bottle of it was 40 Creek I think every time I drive by 40 Creek. I'm like, oh. And I drank and I drank. The rest of it, I would water down bottles. so it would last longer.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

it was just, it was just next level. Right? I would go talk to my doctor and lie, cuz I'm I was a professional liar, right? And he said, okay, well the only solution is abstinence. And I said, well, I can't do that. And he said, well, you're gonna have to. I've known him for years and he knows me inside out. And he just looked at me and he said, well, you're gonna have to, this is the only way you're gonna get better. And he gave me some the benzodiazepines to dry out and I figured out how to use those to keep drinking. Right. So it just, it was just going, to bad, bad places. Yeah. So I detoxed at home. I did like a Valium Taper detox. I don't know if any of you have ever had that before.

Kelly:

No.

Lindsey:

No.

Deb:

I probably should have gone somewhere. But at the time I just couldn't do it. I was scared, I was terrified. And my kids right. They were seven, five, and two at the time.

Kelly:

Oh, wow. Yeah. So the thought of lea the thought of leaving them to go somewhere too.

Deb:

Yeah. Even though I wasn't of much use when, when I was that. But anyway, so yeah. So he said, okay, like, are you done? I can be hot enough. And I said, yeah. I mean, I was, I had a panic attack in his office.

Kelly:

Mm. Wow.

Deb:

I knew what was gonna happen to me. And then I went to my first AA meeting.

Lindsey:

Mm.

Deb:

After when I could drive. So I couldn't drive for two weeks on the meds, I couldn't drive. So, yeah, I went to AA and I went every day for probably, I wanna say the first year I went very frequently. For sure the first six months I went every day cause I drank every day. And that was 11 years ago,

Kelly:

wow, Deb

Lindsey:

whoa.

Tracey:

Yeah. 11 years sober. I should have mentioned that, Deb.

Deb:

But it's, one day at a time, right?

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Tracey:

and your husband Deb, just tell everybody cuz you guys are still together and he's been through all this with you. So how long have you guys have been together?

Deb:

24. 99. 23. 23. Yeah.

Tracey:

Because That's pretty awesome too. That's a lot to go through together.

Deb:

I like things gone very different for me, right? Yeah. I mean, I could have lost, I mean, he could have easily just said, you're outta here. I am not. And so, Oh yeah. I'm so lucky. I mean, it could have gone very, it could have gone completely different. Many things could have happened. I never drove impaired ever. I think I knew that if I did that something bad would happen.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

I would walk if I couldn't drive, wait, we're going to the park or whatever. Well, we're gonna walk cuz I can't drive. Yeah. Like, it's crazy how it just took on a life of its own. Mm-hmm. Now it all seems like a really bad dream,

Lindsey:

hmm.

Deb:

But the reality is just like that you just don't know. Right. You don't know. Yeah. So I then I found yoga and I thought I would never do yoga. My mom used to try and get me to go to yoga and I was like, there's no way. Like I will pursue yoga. And then I had a friend who was a yoga instructor in Burlington at Chrysalis, so it's closed now, but yeah. So she was like, you gotta come. And I was like, okay, I'll come. And then as soon as I did it, of course, I was like, oh my gosh, I love this. I'm gonna be a teacher. I don't really do things. It just, it's like, I like it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna become a teacher, the way I'm doing it. Right. Then I was teaching for a while and I realized that there was like a connection between recovery and yoga, the principal, not the principles of yoga. Cause I don't get into the philosophy too, too much. you can get pretty deep into all of that. And I try and keep it on a very general level because when I do the workshops people are coming who don't really know yoga philosophy. Or they've maybe never done yoga before.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

So it's not specifically just for people who are into yoga, right. It's just, it's a nice connection for me to bring both together. So I did the training, it's called Y 12 sr. I don't know if any of you are familiar with it. So it's yoga for 12 step recovery. That's what it stands for. Mm-hmm. but it's not aa. So it's not, the 12 steps are there, but it's not the same. Because AA is not for everyone.

Tracey:

Right. Right.

Deb:

It's not for everyone. And I totally respect that and get it like 100%. you don't have to go to AA to recover. You just don't, I mean, you need a path. But I, I understand and respect that people, not everyone goes to AA and I think people can get better without it.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

and with it, I needed it I just needed it. I needed somewhere to go where I could sit, listen to other people, get outta here, stop with the self-talk. Stop with the self-centeredness. Cuz it starts here, right? Starts in my mind. It centers in my mind. so I needed that and I continued and had sponsors and I did the steps and all of that. And I'm glad I did it right. I'm here because I did that, so that program, there's a woman, her name is Nikki Myers, and she developed it and she does the training. And I, she came to Toronto for a weekend, like intensive. It was like Friday night, Saturday, Sunday. And I went and I was like, I have to go do this. I need to meet her. I need to do this. Once I did that, you can take that and go to studios treatment centers pretty much anywhere and do the meetings. They give you structure, they give you, here are the guidelines. It's donation based, so anyone can go, right. It's accessible to everybody. And it's like a recovery meeting, but it's not aa and it's half discussion and then half a really gentle, simple Yoda practice. So it, there's a format, but I guess what I'm trying to say is it's open to anyone who is recovering or knows someone or is struggling, with a family member or friend or, needs somewhere to try and understand what's going on. So the workshop that I do is longer, it's three hours. I think I did three hours. That's a little bit different because it's getting more into the yoga, a little deeper into the yoga stuff. And trying to connect, from every step of the 12 steps, there's like a connection in the yoga. Sort of philosophy world. It sort of connects the dots a little bit. But like I said, I try not to get too deep into it because I could talk about, the chakras and recovery for like an hour and people are just gonna get bored. Right? So it's been good. I did a few, and then of course, the pandemic hit, so I couldn't do them for two years. I didn't wanna do them online. I just, I don't know. I didn't, think it was gonna be quite the same I had a really hard time teaching yoga online.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

I couldn't see people. So I would be teaching a class to blank, like people wouldn't have their camera on mm-hmm. And then they switched to their platform where it was live and you couldn't see anyone. They can see you cuz they're watching you live, but you can't see them. And I thought, this is just too weird. Like, I can't connect with these people.

Tracey:

Yeah. It's hard to connect when you're not in person. The energy

Kelly:

yeah.

Deb:

I can't see their bodies. I don't know if they're doing things correctly. Do you know what I mean? It didn't work for me. I did do some AA meetings online a little bit. I did a few there were a few women's groups that I joined, but again, it just didn't, I don't know, it just wasn't the same. But it doesn't matter because it was still a meeting, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, so. I feel like the workshops honestly help me maybe more than it helps the people that are there. Because my thing is I have to get out of my head. Like I'm in my head way too much. And maybe that's why yoga helped me because I got outta my head and into my body right now. I probably went a little far at the beginning cuz I would do like two classes a day, right? Oh, I'm gonna go to, I'm gonna go to another class. And that's not healthy either, because I have a disease of supplementation. So if you take one thing away, well, I'm gonna find something else because I wanna find something else that I can focus on. So, unhealthy things. Yes. Example over exercising, right? I did that. Mm-hmm. I decided I was gonna restrict food, right. Why No idea. It's like in my mind cuz I guess I thought if I looked a certain way, I would feel better, which didn't work because again, it's just unhealthy. It's just all unhealthy. And so yoga was a way to channel it in a way that would help others. Because that's what I need to hear other people, right? Like, I need to hear what you guys have to say. I need to hear your, your stuff to get outta my stuff. Right? That's really what my goal, I guess, to, well,

Tracey:

what works for one person doesn't work for everybody, right? No. So you gotta find what works for you. You obviously know that works for you, or you find value in that.

Deb:

Like it takes time.

Tracey:

Yeah, no, for sure. It's just like the AA thing, right? Like it works for some people, it doesn't work for other people. You have to find your path

Deb:

I found the first year, even the first 18 months, two years, I don't, some people have like a, I don't know if you've ever heard the term cloud.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Deb:

Have you heard that?

Lindsey:

Yeah. Yep.

Deb:

That did not happen for me at all. Not at all. That came later for me.

Lindsey:

There are listeners that don't know what that means. can you speak to that?

Kelly:

It's like unicorns and rainbows almost.

Deb:

Yeah. Almost like euphoria oh,

Lindsey:

legitimate pink cloud. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's also like, I was envious, right? Wow. Yeah. That's, yeah. And then what, something's wrong with me. Cause I don't feel that at all.

Tracey:

You're saying you more struggled Deb for the first couple years? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there were other underlying things that were, that I had going on that I struggled with my whole life and had no idea. Cause I was treat, I was self-medicating, right?

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

Because I didn't know what else to do and it worked, like, it worked wonders for me. Alcohol, it was like this transformative thing that I just, it worked. And it's not like I didn't have fun, you know what I mean? Like, I had lots of fun and I have really good memories. But it worked until it didn't and then it just got ugly.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

it was just my solution to so many things. So many things. And, and then the other thing I noticed, and I noticed I met up with a friend today and we were talking about our other friends that I don't see very much anymore. And I notice now that, relationships change over time. And so there's a lot of people now that they, I don't know what it is. I dunno how to explain it. I think they're uncomfortable with me being part of a party or whatever because they're uncomfortable that I'll be uncomfortable. Does that make sense?

Kelly:

Mm-hmm. this comes up a lot on our podcast, Deb. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Deb:

It's like, well, we were worried there'd be alcohol and drugs there, and I'm like, well, you know that I'm a recovering addict. Like I know how to drink alcohol and I know how to do drugs. I don't know what you're hiding from me. Years ago I drank you all under the table and I mean, you watched the show. Like, I don't need to remind you it's such a strange thing. And even family members, right? So I read something that was really interesting and it was about how sometimes there's almost like a trauma bond in a relationship where you're bound by they bind to your weaknesses or you bind to their weakness. So there's some sort of like, not dysfunctional, but a bond is formed and then when one person changes,

Kelly:

mm-hmm.

Deb:

and they can't cling to that part of you anymore cause that part of you is, is gone.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

I mean, to be fair to them, like I'm sure it was fun watching me at a party just get completely out of control and, I would black out all the time and do really awful things to people. And I think to a certain extent you go to a party, I don't know, like I was always that girl, right?

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

I was the girl that showed up two drinks in, three drinks in, and you had to drag me out of there, like Joe Walsh and that. It's hard to leave when you can't find the door.

Kelly:

Yeah.

Deb:

And that's been good. Literally I never wanted to leave. Somebody would literally have to drag me outta there and it was usually my husband. And so I think to a certain extent there's people in my life that and it's no fault of their own, it's just that's how they knew me,

Kelly:

mm-hmm.

Deb:

And I'm not that anymore. And I think it makes them uncomfortable and I think it's better for me to just be okay with it. Cuz I don't want to make them uncomfortable. There's no need for it. So to avoid them feeling uncomfortable, because I still love some of them very, very much, right?

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

they don't wanna hurt them. So if I don't go, I'm fine with it it's just like, I want you guys to have fun. I don't want you to. Feel like you have to invite me cuz they don't invite me anymore a lot of the time. Right. Then I think it makes, and I've hurt a little bit, but at the end of the day, I don't know, does it really matter? It doesn't really matter,

Kelly:

Deb, but I think sometimes we're a mirror.

Lindsey:

I was just gonna say that it's gonna make the people in your life, your sobriety and your choice not to drink anymore makes the people in your life who do or who knew you as that girl, it makes them face like their own drinking habits. Right? You're now not drinking. And so you used to,

Deb:

I used to feel that way too when I see people in recovery

Lindsey:

Like Kelly said, it holds a mirror to them, right? Like, this is,

Deb:

i need to do what you're doing, but I can't, so I'm gonna go have another drink. Right? Like I just, I couldn't get my head around.

Lindsey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

but I would look at them and think, yep. I knew I was an alcoholic. I knew it. I knew it. I would stand in my garage and I used to drink alone all the time. And I would stand in my garage with a drink in my hand and say like, I'm an alcoholic. Like I am an alcoholic. So I knew it's not like I didn't know. I just didn't care. And I used it as an excuse to keep drinking because I knew, everyone knew that I had a problem. So I was like, okay, I have a problem. Well, I'm gonna drink then, and I don't care what you guys think. I don't care what you say. Like that's just how selfish I was.

Mike:

You're not yourself. You're not your true self in that state. So,

Tracey:

mm-hmm.

Deb:

No.

Mike:

I got a question for you. Deb. Does, yeah. Does your husband still drink?

Deb:

He does, but not very much. Yes. Not much.

Mike:

He wasn't your drinking buddy that

Deb:

oh, yes, yes. We were, we drank together all the time. Yeah.

Mike:

Okay. did he have a situation where he was like, you in a sense?

Deb:

No. He doesn't have that thing,

Mike:

right?

Deb:

He doesn't have that. No. To be honest I think it was better just health-wise from a health perspective, getting older Like having the kids there. My kids were little, so my oldest I remember one day he said to me, he's like, you know, mama, I've never, I have no memory of you having a drink in your hand, ever in my life.

Lindsey:

Wow.

Mike:

That makes you feel pretty good.

Deb:

That's nice to hear because you never know. Cause at that age, right? Seven, that's sort of, and I know that the last year I know it affected them. They just didn't know what was going on. They just knew something was going on. Now my daughter was like, no idea. Mm-hmm. But for sure my oldest, I think, and I looked at some pictures one day and I was like, and this was the last year of my drinking. And I looked at the pictures and I had to put the pictures away cuz I felt like I could see I don't know. I just, I was like, you know what, this whole collage, I had this collage of family photos and it just triggered something in me enough. Mm-hmm. I have to put my sponsor. Said, put them away. Just put them away. You don't need to look at them.

Tracey:

I had that happen to me when I first stopped drinking. I think I shared this on the podcast once, or I know I did with the pod squad here. I had my partner showed me a picture of me joking around that I was drunk. And I was like, I ended up in tears. Like I just wasn't ready to see it. And I was embarrassed. Like, I was like, I don't wanna see that. I don't, it doesn't make me feel good. I'm not ready. Like I'm not there to have a laugh about that. You know, I'm just not ready for it. So I get that

Deb:

right. And then also the thing was I would black out, and the next day, or even like months later people would we'd talk about what had happened or my husband would tell me. Mm-hmm. do you remember what happened? Nope. Well, here's what happened, and then it was like, oh my gosh. So then what do I do? Right. I drink more to forget about the

Kelly:

The shame.

Lindsey:

The shame, the shame,

Tracey:

the shame cycle. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about that often too.

Lindsey:

For sure.

Deb:

Yeah. Just this crazy thing.

Kelly:

Was he ever mad at you, Deb? Like, did, would he?

Deb:

Yeah. I'm maintaining this picture of it's not like he never got angry or put his foot down. Yeah. And I don't think he realized that I was in serious alcohol withdrawal. I don't think people understand that it's, well, it's quite dangerous, right? Mm-hmm.

Lindsey:

Oh, for sure you could die.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

and I knew that, and I knew that I had to go to the hospital. But again they released me and I came home and drank. Like, it just, it, but I knew that I had to drink because if I didn't drink, go back to the hospital.

Kelly:

Right.

Deb:

Like it was mm-hmm. the most ridiculous cycle of nonsense. Just repetitive

Lindsey:

self destructive,

Deb:

self destruction, yeah. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. He, I mean, don't get me wrong, but I think when I stopped the first year was not fun for anyone. Not no. Mm-hmm. family members. It's like a mobile, somebody, I can't remember where I read this. It's like a mobile. Like a kid's mobile. When one person changes shifts, the whole thing shifts. So everybody

Lindsey:

is such a good analogy.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

And so, uh, I'm sure I was a complete pain in the ass to be around for the first two years, I'm sure of it. There's no doubt in my mind.

Mike:

You're shedding, you're shedding your old self, so like

Deb:

Yeah.

Mike:

And I think people need to hear what you say and understand that that's just a like a phase, if you will, of peeling the layers of the lettuce back to the core of who you really are. Yeah.

Deb:

Onion people always say onion.

Mike:

Yeah. Yeah. Like you had trauma. Everybody who's come on here I think can admit they had some sort of trauma and the result of their trauma was, I'm gonna drink. And then the drinking just gets to a point where it's like, I don't know, it's just normal to them, and they just keep doing it to deal with their trauma, and then they realize, holy crap, like what I, I'm in trouble, or I need to make a change, or whatever it is.

Deb:

Right? So, and by then I was so deep in it. So you get so deep in it, you don't even realize it's happening. So Tracey, remember I was talking to you about this the scene at the beginning of Rocket Man, I think you remember talking about that.

Tracey:

Yes, we were.

Deb:

I have a picture of it, but I'll maybe we can post it or whatever. have you seen the movie? Has everyone seen the movie? Yes.

Tracey:

I have not seen the movie at

Lindsey:

think I have. No.

Deb:

Have you seen it, Mike?

Mike:

I'm not a movie guy. I'd actually when you read your, oh, I've seen any movies.

Kelly:

Rocket Man is so, for so many reasons. Music alone.

Deb:

Oh my gosh. Okay.

Tracey:

I'm watching Rocket Man this weekend.

Kelly:

Yes,

Tracey:

I'll watch it.

Deb:

So the beginning. And this actually, it's funny cuz this totally relates to exactly what Mike just said at the very beginning, Elton John. Well, the actor that plays Elton John, he's going into the treatment center. And he walks in, in his costume that he was wearing when he was on stage. In the movie, he goes right from a venue mm-hmm. He doesn't go on stage. Instead he gets in a cab and goes to the treatment center and he's still wearing the costume and it's the devil. He's dressed like the devil. So he's got feathers, this big cape of feathers and horns, and he's larger than life. And when he comes into the door, he's. And then as he goes and walks into the hallway, the image, it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And then they start to show feathers falling off of the costume as he walks into the group, the room where he's gonna go in, into group. Now, you would never go into a group therapy meeting dressed in full costume, I don't think, but it just works so well in the movie. And then by the end of the movie, he's sitting in the room with these people in a bathrobe, right? Completely just down.

Kelly:

He shed it all.

Deb:

It's so like, and I didn't realize it the first time I saw it, but then I watched it and I looked at this figure and I was like, oh my gosh. Like he goes from this crazy, like larger than life. Force to, you know, it's just, it's so well done. It's really well done. Hmm. I could write, yeah. I could write an essay on all these movies. Imagery and Symbolism, but maybe I'll write a book or something.

Mike:

Write a blog.

Deb:

Yeah. Yeah. Right. Do they, does that still happen? Blogs?

Mike:

Of course it happens. Yeah. Start your own, your own website of yourself and write blogs on them.

Deb:

Mm-hmm. write blogs on movies about recovery and the scenes. Yeah.

Kelly:

Yes.

Mike:

Why not? Great.

Tracey:

You go, that's a great idea. Actually.

Mike:

Therapeutic and it's really and may. Mm-hmm. And maybe it hits one person reads your blog as opposed to seeing a podcast or gonna a yoga.

Deb:

And then they'll go watch the movie even though they're not movie people.

Kelly:

I feel like Deb's gonna follow up with Mike on that.

Mike:

you're not getting me to watch movie. I just never been a movie guy. So I'm a documentary guy and I know that's probably very documentary, like Life story.

Deb:

It was Amy is a documentary. Amy. Mm-hmm. Amy is a documentary.

Mike:

Yeah. I have not seen that. I know who she was for sure. Yeah,

Deb:

yeah, yeah. It's a documentary style. That's what it is.

Tracey:

Well, so you can watch it, Mike, is what she's saying. Yeah. I'm trying to think. The others are not gonna

Mike:

tell me what to do. Oh,

Deb:

oh, anyway. Yeah.

Tracey:

So Deb, why don't you talk a little bit, I know you're planning, I think you said in the spring to start up some of the recovery workshops again. Hopefully.

Deb:

Yes. So

Tracey:

at Yoga Shala

Deb:

Yes. So Yoga Shall is in Watertown it's on Center Road right across from Flak Center. Mm-hmm.

Tracey:

Beautiful studio. Beautiful place.

Deb:

Yes. Really nice.

Tracey:

Yeah. Really nice.

Deb:

So I usually do one in the spring. I find it's a good time to do something like that cause people are sort of coming out of hibernation Right. And starting to sort of connect and the energy. Right. People are starting to get kind of antsy

Tracey:

springs, like new beginnings too, right? Yeah.

Deb:

I will do another one. It will probably be in April. And I would like to start the meetings again. So the ones I was talking about, the yoga for 12 step recovery mm-hmm. So once you do the training, you become what's called a Y 12 SR. Leader. It just basically means you're qualified to hold the meetings in a space mm-hmm. And it has to be donation based, so I'm gonna try, I'm gonna talk to them at the studio and find out what the availability of the room is, and see if I can start those up again. Sometimes those start up kind of slow. I only got to do one before Covid. It was cool though because it wasn't just people from the studio, people somehow got the information about the meeting and came from all, like, it was weird. Like one man was from, I don't know where he drove from, but he had, he wasn't part of the studio. And he came and I was like, oh my gosh. and two people came that had never done yoga before.

Kelly:

Cool.

Deb:

Right? And they were just like, oh, this is awesome. I have no idea how to move my body, but this is great. So it's not like we're doing handstands or anything like we're not doing that.

Kelly:

Is this something that is happening everywhere? We have listeners from all over? Yeah.

Deb:

Yeah. Oh yeah. People will prob, people will probably know. Some will probably know about it. So, because it started in the US

Kelly:

I've never heard of it. How can you find out?

Deb:

I found out through like yoga connections, a yoga teacher said to me, oh, check this out. You might wanna look at this. Cuz I was already planning to do the workshops that was in my mind. And then she showed me this program. So it was like, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need, right? This is the information that I'm interested in and I need to do this training. I need to meet this woman that started this thing. So it's everywhere.

Kelly:

Is it okay?

Deb:

Yeah.

Tracey:

You can provide us with the information. Deb put it show notes.

Deb:

Yeah. Yeah, I will. There's a website you can go on and then there's

Kelly:

Oh, great.

Deb:

You, you can post it later Yeah. On the instagram.

Tracey:

Yeah. And Kelly might be interested in it for herself. Yeah. Cuz she's into yoga and she's and

Kelly:

a yoga teacher too.

Lindsey:

So I have a question. and maybe our listeners too are wondering, but like I know that the practice of yoga, can help balance some parts of the brain and body that are affected when someone's abusing drugs or alcohol.

Deb:

Yeah, there's a whole,

Lindsey:

so maybe just, yeah, maybe just touch on

Deb:

Yeah.

Lindsey:

How yoga would help somebody who's been, thinking about quitting drinking or why somebody would wanna incorporate yoga into their journey of giving up drugs and alcohol.

Deb:

Yeah. I think, like I had said before, getting out of your head a little bit and just into your body. Mm-hmm. So don't forget. Right. It can also trigger.

Lindsey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I don't think.

Lindsey:

Focusing the energy inward and then learning to sort of gain control over

Deb:

Yeah.

Lindsey:

Your feelings and thoughts maybe,

Deb:

or it can, yoga can trigger things in your mind that you had have been suppressing

Lindsey:

with alcohol.

Deb:

Yeah, yeah, Because people, let's face it, you're not going to yoga if you've had a drink or two. You know what I mean? I think you have to be, well, you have to have an open mind to go to a yoga class, right? Because if you go in with that, like, I, I don't wanna be here. your body's not gonna wanna be there, and your mind's not gonna wanna be there either. You can sense it when people just aren't feeling it. As a yoga teacher, you can tell, you can read the room pretty quickly. Mm-hmm. and just sort of get a sense of, okay, all right, I'm just gonna let that person be and I'm gonna maybe help this person a little more. So I think in terms of brain chemistry, do you mean, or,

Lindsey:

well, yeah, like just how,

Deb:

because that part, you can get pretty deep into that. I think honestly it's just developing awareness. In any way you can. So if, yoga helped me cuz I then I was like, okay, so now I can get out of my head and stop this, this chattering that's going on and I can just focus on moving and that person up there, the teacher is gonna tell me how to move. That's because I'm that about yoga. I'm undisciplined. That's my nature yes. Do nothing that you're gonna tell me to do because I don't wanna

Lindsey:

That is so good. Yeah. I can relate when you say that,

Deb:

like now, okay, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna put my right foot in front of my left foot,

Lindsey:

I'm gonna breathe like this and I'm gonna take a breath in for this many counts and out for this many counts. you're right, you are out of your head.

Kelly:

It's that out of your head. You're only completely in your head when you're in your addiction. I. Found my yoga mat one month before I decided to give up alcohol.

Deb:

Oh yeah.

Kelly:

And I describe it as my mind, body, spirit connection was completely broken. Only in your mind, right? Like you've talked so much about tonight, Deb. It helped me reconnect that mind, body, spirit. That's what yoga did for me.

Deb:

Yeah.

Kelly:

Yeah.

Deb:

But it takes time.

Kelly:

It takes time. But I knew the first time I was on my mat, that was where I belonged. That's for sure. Yeah. I cried. Yeah.

Deb:

And the other thing too is because for me, I operated so long on this trying to resist everything, I was always in the state of resistance, I don't wanna do what you tell me to do. This isn't going the way I want it. So I read a book can't remember the name of it, it's a book that I had to read in my yoga teacher training. And this man described it as living at right angles to life. So, I was constantly pushing like at a right angle at whatever was in front of me. I wanted to change it. I wanted to hide from it. I didn't wanna deal with it. Mm-hmm. So I was resisting what's gonna happen when I resist. I'm gonna suffer every time.

Lindsey:

You get tired.

Deb:

Exhausted. Yeah.

Lindsey:

Exhausted.

Deb:

But I'm doing it to myself. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I'm, and I continue to do it. And do it and do it until, so that's

Lindsey:

you finally, what? Surrender.

Kelly:

Surrender?

Deb:

Or Well just, yes. Yeah. I mean,

Kelly:

acceptance. Acceptance and surrender.

Deb:

Just awareness that I was even doing it because I had no idea I was doing it right until I read this book. I was like, oh my gosh. That's what I've been doing my whole life. I've been in complete resistance to pretty much everything. Because I think I run the show. Well, newsflash, I don't run the show. And that's why the yoga teacher in the front of the room, they run the show. I'm here. I'm gonna do exactly what he or she tells me to do. Mm-hmm. for an hour. I'm gonna do what somebody else tells me to do, and then I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna feel some stuff and then I'm gonna, and I'm, I'm going back, right. Because I want, and then you find yoga teachers that you connect with and you go to their classes. And I talk about recovery all the time in my classes. I have since day one. I almost always theme something around recovery. It took me a little while to do that, but then I thought, you know what, no, I'm just gonna do it. I don't care. I'm not gonna hide it. Again, I'll just be resisting it. Like I'm just gonna here it is. This is it and if I could reach one person in the room, because the reality is a lot of people are just going, okay, well I don't know who this teacher is, I have no idea what she's talking about. And that's fine, right? so many times I've had someone come up and go, oh my gosh. Do you go to AA or what do you do? Or what's your recovery like? And I end up talking to this person, and then I end up with like, Tracey, right?

Lindsey:

Yeah,

Tracey:

exactly

Deb:

Then she was like, oh my gosh. And then she wrote me like a little note with her number, like old school, right. Little note the number. right. And then I looked at the paper and I texted her, and then that was it. And now I'm here.

Tracey:

Yeah. Right.

Deb:

So little things like that happen, right? And, and they don't happen all the time, but when they do, it's like life changing,

Tracey:

yeah.

Deb:

So you leave the other stuff. So it's like you not replace, but you, you just have this whole other world of people that you, it's, you just don't ha it's like an exhale. Mm-hmm. I can just like, talk to these people and I don't need to feel like I'm offending them or they're offending me, or we're not, there's no facade, I guess.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

such a relief, right? Like, it's just like, oh man, why didn't I figure this out years ago? But I didn't, but I did now.

Tracey:

Well, it's like if I hadn't have, asked or inquired or saw your session there, we wouldn't have connected. Right? So it's always worth saying something I got in like, oh, I don't think I'm gonna tell these owners of this yoga studio that

Deb:

Yeah.

Tracey:

I have a podcast about living alcohol free, but yes. Then this would never have happened. So you gotta take those chances. Right.

Deb:

I listened to one of these, and that's exactly what you guys were talking about, was. Putting yourself out, like if you have a business or whatever you're doing with your life, right? And you're trying to promote yourself or put it out there. But you feel like, what if this happens if I do it? what if this person doesn't like me if I do this or doesn't approve, I guess.

Tracey:

Mm-hmm.

Deb:

And so sometimes I just don't do it. Like, oh, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna say that. I'm not gonna write that. I'm not gonna, oh, should I do the workshop? Because then I have to tell everyone about myself and what an idiot I was and how I'm better now. But then I have to like spill it. All so as soon as I do that, I can't undo it. You can't un unhear something. You can't unsee something,

Tracey:

mm-hmm.

Mike:

your truth. It's the truth though,

Deb:

right? And it's that silly, ridiculous fear of. What do I have to lose? Really? Yeah.

Tracey:

It's the ego. The ego takes over. And then, then we worry about, judgment and all those other things. And it's the shame cycle creeping back in too.

Deb:

Yeah.

Tracey:

We're just shaming ourselves because God forbid we were human and had this issue and didn't deal with life perfectly. Right. And now, we have something to, to regret or to Yes. Try to prove.

Deb:

But at least we, at least I know now, right. I have that awareness now and I can go, oh, okay.

Lindsey:

I think that's what keeps addictions going too, is fighting so hard to keep those truths secret.

Deb:

Yeah.

Lindsey:

And not out there for everybody to see and. You're in this sort of internal conflict, like I don't wanna be this person I black out and say and do all of these mean nasty, hurtful things. I don't even remember half the shit I said or did. And it's like, when somebody shows you a picture or tells you like even weeks or months later, I'm looking at pictures of myself and I'm like, oh man, you were really hurting, you were really sad. But I think until you get it out in the open, I was always really concerned about, in the beginning like, oh, this podcast, I don't wanna say too much, but it is so freeing and it's part of, keeps me strong and not even wanting to consume substances because I have nothing to fight against anymore. I'm not trying to keep it hidden or inside or manage it so that I look good on the outside.

Deb:

Mm-hmm.

Lindsey:

publicly when I'm blacking out behind closed doors by myself watching Netflix. And I think circling it all back to yoga, that's such an awesome practice. I would do yoga classes even while drinking, and I would just have tears. I'd be lying on my back with tears just streaming down my face, trying not to make crying sounds. And then I would get up off the mat and I'd be like, holy shit. What just happened happened. And then I would go and have the best sleep of my life and be like, I'm going back tomorrow. Right?

Deb:

Yeah. I wish I could have done yoga when I was still drinking, but I couldn't. I mean, I couldn't even, yeah. I couldn't go anywhere. But I didn't find it then, but I found it now.

Tracey:

That's important. part

Deb:

Yeah,

Lindsey:

for sure. And it's awesome that you put it out there, doing your workshops and stuff, like who cares what people think? The right people are gonna align with you and you're gonna impact so many people and have such a positive influence on somebody's life. It's super positive. You're not doing that whole resistance thing anymore. You don't have this part to fight against anymore because it's all out there. So take it or leave it.

Deb:

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Take what you need, come to the workshop, take what you need and leave the rest behind. Mm-hmm.

Mike:

life goes in cycles, like you said, you didn't lose people from them inviting you to parties, but. You lost a part of your old life and you're okay with it. So your life is going in a cycle where you're gonna meet new people and meeting those new people very well is coming from your work in the yoga world or sharing it in a blog or sharing your movie list. And I got a couple of movies I can ask you list them, but

Deb:

yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike:

I think it's great. I really appreciate you coming on and I'm sure the girls do too. It's been a great job.

Deb:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much.

Kelly:

It's amazing. Thank you, Deb

Tracey:

I know you wanted to share a poem with us, Deb, which I thought was amazing. I never heard it before. And literally I was almost in tears and had chills when you sent it to me today. Yeah. I just really, really resonated with me. Super excited for you to share it with our listeners.

Deb:

Okay. Yes. And some people may have heard this one. It's not AA but people read this in AA all the time, not, not every meeting, it's not in the script, but it's definitely out there. It's called yesterday, today, and tomorrow there are two days and every week about which we should not worry, two days, which should be kept free from fear and apprehension. One of these days is yesterday with its mistakes and cares, faults and blenders, aches and pains yesterday has passed forever beyond our control. All the money in the world cannot bring back yesterday. We cannot undo a single act we performed. We cannot erase a single word we said yesterday is gone the other day. We should not worry about is tomorrow. With its possible adversities, burdens, large promise and poor performance. Tomorrow is also beyond our immediate control. Tomorrow the sun will rise either in splendor or behind a mask of clouds, but it will rise until it does. We have no stake in tomorrow for it is yet unborn. This leaves one day today. Any person can fight the battles of just one day. It is only when you and I add the burdens of those two awful eternities yesterday and tomorrow that we break down. It is not the experience of today that drives people mad. It's the remorse or bitterness for something which happened yesterday and the dread of what tomorrow may bring. Let us therefore live, but one day at a time. well thought through it? Yeah. I never get through it without tearing up crazy. I was trying to think.

Kelly:

Good.

Deb:

Trying to think of something that will something funny or something ridiculous. Oh yeah. I love it. I love it. So I share that

Kelly:

just for today. That's from AA too, right? Just for today.

Deb:

Yeah.

Kelly:

I love that. Yeah.

Tracey:

Had you guys heard that before?

Kelly:

No, I've never heard them,

Tracey:

No. Me either.

Kelly:

Thank you for sharing

Deb:

that. Good one. Yeah. It just, it applies to anyone. Yes. This is less, this is a political

Kelly:

addiction or not. It applies to anyone. Yeah.

Deb:

Which is good because people who don't have that this can still relate to it. So I can share this with anyone. And some people are gonna go, wow. And the other people are gonna go, yeah, I don't really get that, but that's okay. That's okay. Right.

Tracey:

Well, I think most people struggle with living in the present.

Lindsey:

Something.

Kelly:

Totally. Yeah.

Tracey:

I sent it to my partner and he's never been a drinker, and even he could appreciate it.

Deb:

Yeah.

Tracey:

Everybody does get trapped in, what do they say? People that are stuck in the past are depressed, and people that are stuck in the future are full of anxiety.

Lindsey:

Anxs Anxious. Yeah.

Tracey:

Yeah, yeah.

Deb:

Yeah. And it, again, it doesn't mean that you're not gonna go there again, periodically. I mean, let's face it, I worry about what I did yesterday sometimes.

Lindsey:

Mm-hmm. and

Tracey:

mm-hmm.

Deb:

But then I'm like, well, wait a minute. There's absolutely nothing I can do about that. Absolutely nothing. Especially with my kids. It's like I could worry for days and hours about what ifs, what if, what if, what if? Mm-hmm. and then I, wait a minute, hold on. I can't control that. I can't control anybody. and I can't control anything. I just can't. Mm-hmm. and that's hard for me. That was so hard for me.

Kelly:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Deb:

and even worrying about not being able to control, you know what I mean? It was just this ridiculous game in my head. Exhausting. Exhausting.

Tracey:

Well thank you so much, Deb. It's been a pleasure having you and thanks for sharing your story. Tell people where they can find you, because you are on Instagram and are there places people can go to a yoga class where you're teaching right now?

Deb:

Yeah, so I teach at Yoga Shala I don't have a regular yoga class, I'm just trying to focus on the workshops and I teach Barre so I don't know how many of you know what Barre is, but it's, do you know what Barre is? Okay. Yeah. So it's like Pilates slash valley Love slash mm-hmm. or It's, I love it. I've been teaching super, I've been teaching for a while now, and I, I actually have a training program I train instructors now. So I'm doing that and I really wanna focus on the recovery and the yoga meetings. I wanna start those up again. Try and have one a month, see how it goes. So my Instagram is at, I came up with this name Shadowlands Yoga because of the light and the dark. And that's my thing where when I teach yoga, I, at the end of my classes, I always say the light and the dark in me honors the light and the dark in you because when you do yoga right, it's always the light. But in the reality of me, I am not always light and I still am not always light and I probably never will be always light. So that part of me, and I know there's parts of the dark in pretty much everybody, so I'm gonna acknowledge that part in you as well. And then you don't have to worry about it Cause I feel it. Right.

Kelly:

I love that, Deb.

Deb:

Yeah. so the Shadowlands yoga, that's kind of where it came from. That's where that concept came from.

Tracey:

I love that. That's great.

Deb:

Yeah.

Tracey:

Okay. And you can find us too on Instagram@laflifepodcast and in our Facebook community at LAF Life as well. And please reach out, as Kelly mentioned in our last episode, if you have any topic ideas or things you want us to discuss on an episode, please put some comments in one of our social media pages and we'll definitely throw that out there. Again, thank you so much, Deb, for joining us, good night, everybody.

Deb:

Thank you so much.

Kelly:

Thank you.

Deb:

I'm so glad I met you guys.

Mike:

Thank you meet.

Lindsey:

Thank you, Deb

Deb:

go to the movie

Tracey:

That's awesome. Well, until next time guys, keep laughing.

Kelly:

Thank you for listening. Please give us a five star rating like and subscribe, share on social media and tell your friends. We love getting your feedback and ideas of what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes of the laugh life podcast. If you yourself are living alcohol free and want to share your story here, please reach out.