Ringing out the sponge on childhood trauma, Season 2 Ep.16

The topic of trauma has been brought up in many of our previous episodes but we decided to fully dive into it in Episode 16.  Exploring how childhood trauma shows up in all areas of our lives. We are ringing out the sponge on our own personal trauma and how it is uniquely defined to all of us. We are sharing the ways we have work through it and continue to  heal from it.   Although this was a heavy topic we managed to squeeze in a few great laughs along the way! This was an insightful episode we believe will be truly relatable to all our listeners.

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Transcript

Kelly: 0:03

welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, Mike Sutton and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories. We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support. Hey everybody. Welcome to the LAF Life podcast. We're at season two, episode 16. Hey everybody. Hey, was hello? What's up? We're here. Lindsay's on the phone, old fashioned phone. I am outta town.

Lindsey: 1:00

Telephone.

Kelly: 1:00

Yeah. Yeah. And Mike has a brand new spring haircut.

Lindsey: 1:07

I'm gonna die.

Mike: 1:10

He's still a rocker

Kelly: 1:11

at heart. Yeah. No, everybody's looking good. Okay. Spring is coming. Separate Linds. Who's

Tracey: 1:18

not looking at

Lindsey: 1:21

I'm like a telephone icon. Yeah, totally.

Tracey: 1:24

That's a great look right there. All right, so I saw something on Instagram the other day and I posted it on our group chat here and we thought it would be a good topic for tonight. So it says, ironically, when we start to get better, we also start to get sad because we start to realize how much we've missed out on how badly certain people failed us, what the younger version of us actually deserved healing involves healthy grieving, no way around it. So we started to have a really good conversation about this in the group chat. I had a conversation with a friend about she had a past trauma and how scary it is to go back and look at those things. And what I've learned is that they don't go away. And when I first started in therapy with my addictions therapist, she explained trauma in a really, I love analogies and it's a real good visual. It's like your trauma is this gaping hole in the ground and stays there. And over time we build a platform over top of it, and that's our life that we build. We grow up, we do all the things, become an adult, but this hole underneath the platform gets bigger and it gets bigger and bigger. Until we look at it and deal with it, it's not gonna go away. And, addiction is part of that a lot of the time. Numbing addiction, just not wanting to feel it because it starts to bubble up and it starts to show up in different ways in our lives and in our relationships. it can be overwhelming to deal with, right? that's the thing. It's so overwhelming and sometimes you can't even really put your emotions into context. So instead of trying to do that, you just wanna numb them or not deal with them, and then that's when, like you said, Kel addiction really comes into play.

Kelly: 3:21

Yeah. I think I had a real fear even after I quit drinking, knowing that there was stuff I was gonna have to look at, I had a real fear that if I went there, then I was gonna stay there and somehow live the rest of my adult life in victim mentality. That's not true.

Tracey: 3:37

No, and I had many moments right after I quit drinking too, where I still had that initial thought of. It would just be so much easier to have a drink, then have to deal with this. Or if only I could just go home and have a drink so I wouldn't have to process those emotions.

Kelly: 3:57

Yeah. And you want that temporary, like it's easier in the moment. Yes. Yeah. To numb it out. It's that quick fix that we're always looking for.

Lindsey: 4:07

just think about addiction, when it's at that point, I'm even just thinking back to my last few experiences with drinking alcohol. It got to a point for me, I don't know about you guys. Maybe you can sound off on this. Once I finished this what I'm trying to say here, but it's it's not that I wasn't drinking like I was because. Fun and feels good. When you're at that point of addiction, it isn't fun, right? It doesn't feel good. The night often ends badly. You often don't remember shit you said and did, and there's injuries and you're hungover it's not fun. But people use substances because they're trying to feel normal or they're trying to feel nothing at all. Trauma is always related. What were you gonna say, Mike, I wasn't gonna say anything specific. I'm agreeing with everything that's being said. Your analogy about the covering up the pit is, it's, what's the fuck? It's the booby trap, right? Yeah. Follow the booby trap and My platform was really nice.

Tracey: 5:13

But that hole's gonna get big enough. It's gonna cave in one day. Exactly.

Mike: 5:16

So let me guess. It had a beautiful carpet and then just below the carpet or something.

Kelly: 5:21

Hardwood floors baby. Wow. Wow. That's probably why it stood so long. Cause it was hardwood. But in the booby trap, there's a lot of other people that you're hanging out with that make the booby trap or the trap fun the fun wears out because you start looking around and some people have crawled out of the pit or some people have moved on to a bigger pit or a different pit. I can just think back to, it's funny, before we started, we were talking about 20, the twenties and I shared a few stories with you and thinking about those times and I lived with three other guys and It was the party palace. And I think about where not only I am, but those other guys are right now, and think we all had our moments. And I think, some still deal with stuff, I just don't know that I would trade it, but I think in a certain way I would want to change things to leading into what you said, to lead off the segment about thinking about time and the time that was wasted and you can't get time back. so what the hell are you waiting for? Type of thing. And I guess, the I wouldn't trade anything for any of my experiences. I don't know that I would, but I'd sure as hell would want someone that time back so I could. Fast track it to where I'm at now. I wish I would've been there, maybe by the time I got to 40 and then by the time I got to 40 it was probably really ramping up. little bit of rambled thought there, but Yeah, no, that's a good point, Mike. I actually was listening to somebody else who was talking about their addiction and how they said that they don't regret any moment of it because it's really what made them come to where they are now. And I think we've had these conversations too, and I don't disagree with that either. I don't think any of us would be the people we are today without that. But I can definitely agree with Mike. I am a huge advocate all the time and am completely conscious of time and. Time is something we never get back in life. It has, to me, one of the largest values.

Mike: 7:20

It is the most valuable thing. Yeah. In saying that, I do agree that having some time back that definitely got wasted. Doing, ridiculous or useless things getting wasted. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. I think I told you guys that story about being in Hawaii only. Two months into my alcohol free journey and climbing that mountain. And I was married at the time, climbing that mountain and coming back down and just bawling my eyes out and saying I missed so much. We've been on all these trips and all I was doing was obsessing about where I was gonna get the next drink or when Happy hour I was, or yeah. It was such a sad moment for me cuz I did really I think that's what really spoke to me about this wording in this post was that, we have to go through a grieving of, what we've missed out on and that trauma too. And the other thing I wanted to mention was, there's a misconception about what trauma is and a lot of times people hear the word trauma and they think abuse. Or, something absolutely devastating, like one certain event. But it can be for me, emotional neglect. for some people somebody told me a story once about their son needing to heal some childhood trauma about moving houses. Yeah. When they moved from one house to another, that was really traumatic for him so even siblings can have the exact same experience and one has some healing to do from that experience, and the other one doesn't have any. So I think there's a lot of misconceptions around what trauma is, and there's a little definition I just looked up here and it just says A deeply distressing or disturbing experience. yeah. I was saying to you guys and sent you a post too from a guy who's a psychiatrist and he was talking about how trauma isn't exactly like you said, Kel, always abuse of some sort or some major impactful event. It is basically at. Bare bones, a child's needs not being met. And however that's perceived by the child. And as you said, every child is different. Every child's needs is different. We've talked about who we were as children and some of the things that we neglected to have, right? They weren't things that, somebody looking on the outside would think, we had horrible parents or anything like that, it's just that there was an inner child in us screaming for something that our parents weren't giving us.

Kelly: 9:45

So that's the other thing we were talking about that got really interesting too, was saying while my parents did the best they could, And I feel like in that there is a bypassing of healing because I was telling you guys this right about, I was in a relationship with somebody who was a drug and alcohol counselor at a treatment center. And with his patients, when parents came up, he would say to them, did they do their best? Do you really think that they did their best? And you gotta be really honest about it. Is that the absolute best they could do? Cuz I really feel like in my journey I had to get angry about stuff and I did, I thought I had healed something and then it came back because I hadn't, because I hadn't felt or expressed the anger around that. I was angry. What do you wanna say, Linds

Lindsey: 10:38

I'm just like, I know I'm thinking about that conversation, but, cause we were having that conversation and it, and you're right, I don't know, anytime we talk about childhood stuff, Kelly, you know this, I just like ball. So there's definitely, there is something there, but it's like when you say did your parents do the best that they could? I was thinking okay, picture my three year old self and I don't know, picture how your parents were and then think about a situation that happened or could be anything and how you felt would you really, at your age now, Tell your parents, oh, it's okay. You did the best you could because probably they didn't, like you said, you have to be really honest. Did they do their best? Probably not. Was really shitty. how they handled the situation. Thinking to my childhood, I know for sure, my mom, she had been through a lot, as a really young kid too. She lost her mom when she was like 16. And there was abuse in the family, and there was alcoholism in the family. It was absolutely nuts. And I think sometimes, you didn't do any work to heal yourself, right? You to this day still hold onto grudges and things, and that's like hurting you. and it reflects on how. You're parented as well. It's generational, but you're breaking the cycle. When who, whoever decides to look at it and heal it, then that's breaking that cycle.

Tracey: 12:05

But I think that's why we've given them that excuse or where that excuse comes from. It comes from us saying they did the best they could based on the tools they were given by their parents, right? The excuse stems from, what they were given from their parents. And translated to what was given to us. But it's speaking to Lindsay's point that doesn't really excuse it because if they had done the work, then they could have done better.

Kelly: 12:34

And I remember my sitting in the work. Yeah. Yeah. I remember my therapist saying to me is it possible that your mom had childhood trauma? And I was like, oh, absolutely. I only know a small portion of, so the I think she just did that to get me to maybe have some more compassion, which I can have, I can have compassion and also be angry. That I didn't get what I needed. Solid

Mike: 12:59

probably also did it for you to open your mind to the whole, the bigger scope of self-discovery. That's really what it's about. Breaking the cycle, right? You don't look at it from the perspectives of, oh yeah, they did the best with what they had and they did what their parents taught them and it's fuck you. There's more in their life than relying on somebody You gotta listen to your instincts and when things aren't right, you gotta figure things out on your own too at some point. And yes. You choose to do that by drinking, you know what, I'm gonna go and drink because that I don't have to deal with the bullshit that I'm having troubles dealing with. It's the same thing, it's the opposite solution. Rather than going in deep and go, holy shit, that time I got locked in the car, or I got moved, or whatever it is. Yes. Plus. Never got dealt with. And I think to a certain degree that, yeah, that's funny. I was talking about this with my sister in the eighties and the seventies and the sixties, but in the eighties when, we were for the most part in our, ten and up. Not you, Lindsay, of course, but lindsay. That's not a dig.

Lindsey: 14:00

she's the baby. I just said the baby.

Mike: 14:05

You sure As help you get away with a lot more than you think. Than you can now. And I think Oh, our generations and the generations, people in their thirties and whatnot that are parents. There's more focus on them to be fucking parents. And Yes, rightfully because the world is an absolutely crazy place and it keeps getting crazier and crazier. So break the cycle, like you said. Break the cycle, and breaking part of the cycle with trauma is, what am I doing to block myself from dealing with my traumas, my past traumas,

Tracey: 14:37

And I think our generation is doing that. We spoke on the last episode, there's things that we're doing a lot better than our parents did. Going to therapy, like allowing, like going to therapy. Yeah. Yeah. And allowing our children to be their own individuals. The things that repressed us when we were growing up, which is part of our trauma. We're not, I'm trying not to do that to my child. I'm trying not to, make her think she has to be someone she isn't. I'm trying to let her be who she is.

Mike: 15:07

But there's some things that we did as kids that aren't being done now that are much better

Tracey: 15:12

A hundred percent. Like we touched on some of those last episode too. For example, latchkey kids to a certain degree, grew up a lot faster. Can there be trauma associated with that? For sure, there could be, absolutely. But a lot of the kids that were latchkey kids, I don't know. I think they got tough, quick and learned some real hard lessons in life. Maybe not the right age. What is the right age? But I don't know. think that there's some things that I learned at a really young age that helped me greatly in life, so there's not to bash, upbringings and all that. I just think that there's no perfect generation, unfortunately.

Kelly: 15:48

No. Everybody will have healing to do.

Lindsey: 15:52

There was more of a suck it up attitude. I'm speaking personally because I was open on the podcast here about how I started to have crippling anxiety at 12 years old and had no idea what the hell was going on. And my mom like love her but that was the mentality I was told it's all in your head. Literally word for word, suck it up. What? I'm 12. I'm not imagining these symptoms. I'm not making it up that I think is something that that has impacted me.

Kelly: 16:24

Absolutely Linds.

Lindsey: 16:26

Yeah, I think in my parents' generation, your parents' generation, there was a lot of that suck it up sort of attitude and it doesn't matter what's going on with your mental health. You still need to show up and go to school and get good grades and you just didn't talk about things like that like they do today. mental health and anxiety and depression. It's a big thing that's talked about and to this day, talking about it or whatever, it's still really uncomfortable for me. I'll never, I used to be at work experiencing anxiety so bad that I would have to leave, but I wouldn't say that I was having anxiety. I would make up that I was sick, like it's crazy.

Tracey: 17:04

I was gonna bring that up too, Lynn's the whole anxiety thing, when we were kids, we weren't allowed to be afraid of things almost. Oh no. It was like, that's so true. God forbid you expressed you were scared of something or you had a fear about something. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really anxiety. And this is the thing for me for sure, I don't know about Lindsay obviously discovered it pretty young, but I started having panic attacks in my twenties and I had no freaking idea what they were because like

Lindsey: 17:33

Exactly. I, that was me.

Tracey: 17:35

you weren't allowed to feel those feelings. So when they got to a place where they were so intensified in my twenties, the anxiety got so strong that it turned into panic attacks. I had no idea what I was dealing with. It took me right Fortunately, I had known a good friend that went through it, so they pretty much educated me and I was able to figure out what it was. But I never knew Because you weren't allowed to feel those things. That's right. And now to this day, I have big issues asking for help, being honest about how I'm really feeling it's really when you think back to how you were brought up or things that you dealt with as a child, it really impacts who you become. And now I find that I'm trying to undo all of that. because it's so ingrained. I remember I must have been really young, three or four, being in a record store with my dad, I don't even know, Garden City Mall or something. And I was so little that I couldn't see above the counters. So I don't know what happened, but I got lost or I thought I did and I couldn't find my dad. And I just remember looking at all these pants, I was freaking out. I will never forget this. I think I must have been like three or four, and I remember feeling panic and I can just see this image in my head even now as I talk about it. And then he just came around the corner and I didn't go and run to him, but I just remember oh my God, like I'm not lost. I was just so panicked and I'm like, oh, geez. Talk about trauma. Stuff like that. That's trauma. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about that, Lindsay. I love how you said undoing it because like we say healing. So what does healing the trauma actually mean? I can get past the anger and resentment, it still pops up sometimes. But I've done it because I've learned how to give myself, for the most part, what I was lacking. Ooh. So what does the healing look like for you guys? I think it depends. I feel like understanding it, yeah. I was gonna say I think it depends what type of parent you're dealing with. My mom and I growing up had a lot of conflict and we resolved that between each other because we cared enough about our relationship to face it head on. But I called my mom out on a lot of things. I didn't allow her to have the excuse of, I did my best and it gave her an opportunity to explain where she was coming from so we could come to a mutual understanding and rebuild our relationship from there. So I think if you have a parent or your anybody who's you've had conflict with, if you have someone in your life that. You can have that kind of dynamic with, that can be a huge part of the healing process. But I realize we don't all have that. So in those situations, like you said, Kel, I do believe definitely you have to find ways to heal yourself or even ways to deal with those particular individuals in your own unique way. had different trauma with another individual from my past that they weren't a rational person that you could have conversations with and you weren't gonna get healing through. That relationship. So I had to find ways to heal myself. Yes. Yes. It doesn't always have to be like I think that's a gift that you got to do that with your mom. That's amazing. And people have asked me because people that were close to me growing up knew that we had this struggle. Now my mom's like my best friend, yeah. Friend. So people have asked me how did you guys get there? Because I think mother and daughter relationships in general, for the most part are Complexed. I don't know anybody that's a mother and daughter who wouldn't say the same thing. It is, For, yeah, we were. And beautiful. Yeah. Have a friend who goes with That's amazing. I just I think that's so great. God. Yeah. If anybody's listening who doesn't have that and I don't have that it's coming to a place of forgiveness without actually having to have that interaction with the other person. And then if the person is in your life boundaries. For me, boundaries have to come into place for sure. If they are still in your life, And I think it's, you have to mourn the loss of what you thought you deserved and didn't get, I think you have to be okay with there's a grieving process there. Sometimes I'm like, oh God, is that why I'm crying so much? I think step one, if you're using substances is to try to get clean, try to. Stop drinking, stop using drugs because you have to get present and grounded and clear. You have to like and clear. And you have to sit with that grief in the morning. And that could last for a long time.

Kelly: 22:38

but not forever. You have to just let that out, but not forever. Yeah. It does change. I know Mike started talking and then I feel like I chimed in there. It's OK. I know it's hard cause I can't see you guys.

Mike: 22:51

I'm sorry. I can't see you and you cut me off.

Tracey: 22:54

Yeah, that's exactly, can't see us talking. No. When you're cutting someone off. Yeah. God. It's like you, we can't see you to cut you off either. Linds

Lindsey: 23:04

I know Sorry Mike. God, we got this.

Mike: 23:14

I can't even remember what I was gonna say.

Kelly: 23:15

That's good you cut out there so

Tracey: 23:18

we wouldn't have heard ya anyways. He's gonna give up so I'm not gonna give up. I'm gonna stop. Cause I cut him off, he was like gonna say's not you. Shit. Shit.

Kelly: 23:34

This is the outtake where everybody fights.

Mike: 23:38

You don't fucking take this out. You leave it in Holy shit.

Lindsey: 23:41

Mike's new haircut.

Kelly: 23:43

I know. He's got a new attitude with this new haircut.

Mike: 23:48

Holy.

Tracey: 23:48

It's very aggressive. Feisty. New haircut. Haircut. Thank you. What? That's, we're causing my trauma right now. by cutting him off. He's gonna need to heal from this.

Mike: 24:04

No, tell you always saying, you guys give me practice for when I decide that I'm gonna get into a relationship and go with three women every Wednesday. I can do

Lindsey: 24:15

every,

Kelly: 24:17

I was gonna ask you if that's why you got your haircut, so you can get some fresh pic pictures for your profile.

Mike: 24:22

That's right. I, there's no fucking, please let us help you if you're gonna make a profile because Okay. I'll let you do that. Let me finish my thought in regards to what you were talking, okay. Okay. Then we'll go back and talk about my profile. What I was gonna say was I think what anybody needs to do, in my opinion, is it's not put yourself in the other person's shoes, but it is in some regards. I think about my own experiences now. I never would've done this before, but now I sit there and think, I feel for them, I empathize for them and what they were going through and what they still probably do go through, and how that person got to a certain stage in their life and the things they did to other people unbeknownst to them, because these traumas aren't always dealt with. And like Lindsay's said, suck it up. There's all these different things that were said to us as kids, but I try to sit there and think, boy, I wonder if they actually got anything from it. And the other part of it I try to use this as if I'm ever in that position at a certain point in my life. And does it always work? No. But at least you use it as a recall experience and go, oh yeah, this was what happened with, uncle Steve, or, my, my mom or whatever. It's the same kind of thing. And go slow down and try to think about how you're going to respond to that event. Lindsay talked about her mom losing her mom at 16 years old. My mom lost her dad when my mom was 10. and Oh my God. There's things I think that are related to how my mom's and my relationship is because she didn't have her father. And Exactly. There's so many things that I learned through therapy that I never in a million years would've even thought for a second that she responds the way she responds due to certain things that happened to her. I want the reaction to be this way. And it's that's not gonna happen. It's just she doesn't see it the same way you do. You can be mad at her all you want, it's not gonna help you. But if you have the skillsets to realize she did what she did and she's doing what she's doing because of these factors, then I think it helps a little bit. So

Kelly: 26:34

that's really good. It's using empathy, right? Empathy. Yes.

Tracey: 26:37

That's what happened with my mom and I she came from her side. This is why I did these things. Yeah. So I had a better understanding and I came from my side of this is how some of those things affected me. And I feel they could have been done better, basically. Yeah. And you hope to take those experiences and share it in your own life with your daughter, right? Yeah, absolutely. I'm the same with Kelly and her sons and, and Lindsay when, and Wes and if Lindsay has children at some point in time in her life, it's All of us are. And even relationships with friends and coworkers and all these things. it's not just related to children, it's related to people.

Kelly: 27:11

The trauma comes up in relationships and more often than not, it's romantic relationships. For sure.

Tracey: 27:16

And it goes back to patterns repeating themselves or repeating a cycle, right? Yes.

Kelly: 27:21

Hey, I feel like we're gonna get sorry. Go ahead, Kel. I feel like we're gonna get off the topic of parents right now because we're starting to talk about other things, but I wanted to read something else, if that's okay. Yeah. Okay. Just a reminder that your parents being better parents than what their parents were to them is not a good reason for you to avoid honoring your own pain. Just a reminder that your story not being as bad as someone else's story is not a good reason for you to avoid honoring your pain. Just a reminder that you can appreciate and respect what your parents or caretakers offered you and still honor your story and your pain without needing to make them the villain or feel like you're throwing them under the bus. Cause I think that's what a lot of people struggle with is if I go back here, I love my mom, I love my dad. If I go back here, does that mean I don't love them? Is it gonna change our relationship? I really love reading that. I just read that today. I think that's what I was trying to allude to in some ways, both putting yourself in their shoes, but not in an empathetic sympathy oh, poor them. Poor them. It's no, try to understand the situation so you can learn something from it. Yeah. And there's no judgment. Shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracey: 28:31

That's the thing. Me and my mom had a very complex, relationship growing up and we both have strong personalities, so we banged heads, but we still loved each other. That's a thing. It's not like there wasn't a sense of not being loved. It was just other challenges.

Mike: 28:47

Strong personality trace. I'm sorry. So for me, I feel like it's not being loved the way I needed. Yeah. For, so that's why I'm like hyper aware of like how different my kids are. I have three kids with three completely different needs, like But let's get into that. How it shows up in relationships because yeah, I definitely. Married my dad, Yeah, me too. Geez. Oh God. repeating, yeah. Cycles. Yeah. Yeah. Really I'd actually, no, now you're really putting me on the spot. Wow. Interesting. Okay, go ahead. I don't think you married your mom, Mike. No. There's fucking no way opposite Yeah. Complete opposite

Tracey: 29:29

But that's something we talked about too. The growing up with drinking and not drinking, right? Either people followed the same cycle or they go to the complete opposite, potentially because they grew up with heavy drinkers or alcoholics, then they don't drink at all,

Mike: 29:44

My mom wasn't an alcoholic and I wanna preface by saying that, not that anybody cares, but no opposite in the sense of. Man, you guys, this is the first time I've been stumped.

Kelly: 29:52

What are you trying to figure How your trauma show showed up in your marriage? No, I know why the trauma showed up in my marriage. Ultimately, at the end of the day was I didn't deal with my own personal trauma and it was how I was as a husband and Right. I think that ultimately led to why my marriage ended the way it ended, and I didn't realize that obviously till it was over, but somebody very early on, within a week, not even a week my cousin called me out on something because I was on social media and I had said something that probably was inappropriate. It wasn't, Verbally abusive or anything. I made a off the cuff comment and I got a phone call, and I was talking to my cousin and she said, what are you responsible for in the marriage? And I was like, what? What are you talking about? And I had no clue what she meant. And she said what are you responsible for? And then 20 minutes later, finally was like, oh, you're right. I got a lot of thinking to do. I got a lot of thinking to do. And that, meant being vulnerable cause your ego's destroyed when the relationship ends. It's all about, it's not always like this. I think it's maturity goes a long way. But, being younger in a marriage ending, it's it's the other person's fault. And it's not, You're not gonna heal from that, right? Owning your shit. Yeah. That took a lot. Look, it probably took at least a year. Oh. I feel like I'm still doing that. Over four years later.

Mike: 31:16

Yeah. I'm a lot longer than that but it took at least a year to really peel the first few layers off. It's probably longer, to be honest with you, than a year, but it took a year for the real anger to subside. I think comes back to ego, at least in my opinion. Yeah.

Kelly: 31:32

I just find it really interesting, dating at this age, how many people are out there, immediately after a relationship ends So many. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. I was never somebody who jumped from relationship to relationship. I've never understood that. I've always needed that downtime to, process between relationships. I've never been prepared to jump from one to another. I think there's various reasons why people do that. One is they don't wanna be alone. Oh, for sure. Some just wanna for sex. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely was out there dating, but not looking for a long-term relationship. But there's people that say they're looking for a long-term relationship, but they're still living in the same house as the person they split with so fresh.

Tracey: 32:23

But I would tell people like that no. I know have some time on your own go date some other people that are okay with it. no. I'm not doing that right now. Figure it out. And then if you're still interested, a year down the road and I'm around, then you can talk to me then. I think we talked about this on one of the girls' episodes, you do not have to be a fully healed, like you're never gonna be fully healed. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that relationships, yeah, I think relationships do give you the opportunity to see where there's still work to be done. And I think there's lots you can do together with a partner, hopefully, yes. One question I used to ask, or I got to asking that if you girls aren't, I think you should too. I used to ask people, what did you learn from your previous relationship? Yes. What did you learn from your divorce or your split up or. What aren't you gonna do? And if they take no ownership of any of it, that's a good indication. That's red flag, huge red flag.

Lindsey: 33:20

Or they trash talk their X Yes, maximum. It's always nothing at trash talk. I'm like, that's such a turn off. It's such a turnoff and it's such a red flag about their own. Mike's taking notes, Lindsay. Accountability. Oh God. Good. I hope

Kelly: 33:42

Come on. Yeah, you're right Lindsay. It says a lot about their character. It says a lot about somebody's character. If they just start talking shit about their ex on the first date,

Tracey: 33:50

oh my God, would you wanna date someone that talks shit about their mother?

Lindsey: 33:54

Yeah. No, that's pretty sketchy. I guess some people just don't have good relationships with they're family, but I don't know, the trash talking, I'm just like, Ooh, it's not good. I think about the stuff that happened with my ex and there was a lot of stuff that went down, from my perspective of things that happened and people would be like, oh my God. But honestly, if I saw him in the streets or needed help, I'm not like, oh, I burned in hell motherfucker I've come around to we don't have any contact, but I'm just like, yeah, I don't know. We're all just unhealed, traumatized beings trying to make connections with other people. It's so true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I'm setting my ex white light all the time. white light. He needs it. He needs a lot of it, and I'm always sending it to him. in the hopes one day he'll just be happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think going back to what you were saying, Linds, you're right, lots of people don't have great relationships with their family, or maybe their upbringing wasn't good. Yeah. And that's fine. But going back to the trash talking, you can express yourself and say, I don't have a great family dynamic, or, I didn't have a great childhood without completely ripping your mother apart or parent or whatever, right? right? So it's all in the approach. Yeah. I just think it speaks to unhealed trauma on that person's part. The person doing the trash talking. I'm like, Ooh, you got some stuff that's gotta be worked out there. Yeah. Within yourself. Exactly. I don't doubt that your ex or whoever did that to you and made you feel that way, or you felt that way around them or whatever. But go ahead, Mike. I just feel like it shows that they don't take responsibility for themselves if they do that and how they showed up. Anyway. Sorry,

Mike: 35:38

Mike. No, don't be sorry. I'm used to that. What I was gonna say is at what point are you talking about these things with these people? Is it this, is it like, I don't know.

Kelly: 35:49

I fucking get right in there. First date. Tell me about your trauma.

Mike: 35:53

I wouldn't avoid it if the questions were brought, I wouldn't avoid it. Don't get me wrong. But I think part of the first date, first few dates is there's a listening ask, at least from what I hear listening is, yeah. It's a big part of catching the red flags that aren't disguised as red flags. They're different colored flags and go, now I gotta ask some more leading questions to see if this is a real red flag. But if you go right to the chase of, oh yeah, my mother was a bitch and blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh fuck. Okay. I get it. Yeah. Let's, that's right. Forget dates two and three. Okay. You're cut. I get what you're saying, but it's almost sounds like a bloody interview, not a date. I'm sorry. It sounds like a, an interview and you talk about online dating. Do you guys talk on the phone to people before you go out with them? Yep. Oh yeah. I like to, I definitely to, I don't wanna meet somebody that I haven't heard their voice or had a at least a conversation by voice. I guess it's a little bit of, you're getting some of this in a phone date cuz it's somewhat of a date, or at least it's a, pre-screening. you're getting that. But yeah, it's interesting. It's very interesting. I think dating has changed drastically over the last probably 10 years, 15 years with social media and other avenues. It's very strange to me. I've tried dating apps and met some pretty. Wow. Individuals,

Kelly: 37:15

Interesting. Very colorful out there.

Mike: 37:17

And you have two, you guys have two. I get it for sure, but I just don't know that you get a real sense of who somebody is, and I could be really wrong, but No, you don't. You don't. But they're don't, they're absolutely not wrong. Authentically meeting them and just you're right Mike. No, you meet them somewhere and it's not oh my God. I want to get with this person. It's, I don't know. It's

Kelly: 37:42

What do you mean get.

Mike: 37:44

Have sex with them, Kelly.

Kelly: 37:45

Oh, wow, Mike, I knew this little, this haircut, it's changed you

Lindsey: 37:52

I'm dying. Where's the organic in nurturing and growing something where it's oh yeah. There's that person at the grocery store or at the bank, whatever, wherever you meet them. I don't know. Maybe you, them through work. I think that's movie bullshit.

Mike: 38:07

Okay. That's fair. You're right to feel that way. I just feel that I've tried the whole on my thing sucks. Sorry. Don't like, I know it don't like it would be great if that happened I think men are too scared organically.

Kelly: 38:21

Yeah. I think men are too scared to approach women in public. Yep. I do, I think you're, I think you're right. I think I can speak, I've definitely avoided it just for a number of reasons. You don't know how somebody's gonna respond in the context of men are labeled as creeps, and you don't wanna be labeled creep because there are, you don't wanna be rejected. The fear of rejection. Yeah. But the rejection part, I think stems back to the original topic of the episode in trauma. Yes. Trauma rejection is a form of youth trauma neglect. Yes. So I think it's healthy to try to approach people and both men and women, why does it have to just be, listen, I'm all for chivalry because it does, Mike. It does. That's why

Mike: 39:05

Women can also approach too and I know they don't much Geez, you've got some pretty goddamn demands, Lindsay, I tell you that much. But listen, I don't ask for a lot just you're using online dating. You're, listen, you're using online dating, so

Lindsey: 39:19

I know.

Mike: 39:20

What the hell do you expect? Sorry. There was a stat I saw that, what's that Tinder like what is it 7% of men, something astronomically low? Get connections with the percentages of women that are on there. I don't think Tinder's a good example. That's an absolute shit show on there. I lasted less than 24 hours on that place. Maybe it's a bad example but the context is there for we are looking at a profile and we're human and you're using your first impressions of a look. So let's use, my old look, my long-haired look as compared to my shorthaired look. And you're, there's three women. Am I gonna get more looks with a shorthaired look than my longhaired look?

Lindsey: 40:06

It depends.

Kelly: 40:07

Depends you have a beard. It depends what people like. You have beard.

Lindsey: 40:11

If you have a beard, chances

Mike: 40:16

you're proving me. I love it. This is great. This is great. But you're going based on a look. Ultimately does a relationship last primarily on looks? That shit wears out, man. It. What about heights? Appreciating what about heights? We've talked about that with you and your pickiness and, but a good relationship, and I'm probably not the best person to talk about this, but I think a good relationship is built on communication. Communication leads to loyalty and trust and all these things. It's an ingredients bag, looks are important. Don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. That wears off and it's like what does that person's got between their ears? What are the common interests? There's so many things, and you can't get that from somebody on a frigging dating profile on a computer. Sorry.

Kelly: 41:02

Save that clip. Save that clip for his profile, what he just said. Lie people, lie filters and all that bullshit. Yes. Yeah. Very true. Lie. Yeah. Remember Lindsay and I talked about that about, guys. Finding out what you want and then playing on that, even if that's not their thing. Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Sorry, say that again. If I said to, I started talking to somebody and I said, oh, I really want a relationship and I like to do this and da. Then that person, no matter what they want, if it's not the same thing, they're gonna play on that and yeah. And try and be that person. True. to get with me. What does that mean, kelly? you defined it.

Mike: 41:43

Does that mean to have a garden and Yeah. Share? Yes. On the platform,

Kelly: 41:52

yes. And that's my trauma showing up in relationships. A lot of it is the fear of rejection. Yeah. I know it holds me back a lot. Percent. Yep.

Mike: 42:01

Then why do you go through the actions? When your instincts tell you something, why don't you drop it? Why don't you cut the balloon loose? What do you mean? Meaning if you start to date somebody and some things start to happen and maybe this is just related to my trauma. If it's your spidey senses, let it go, right?

Kelly: 42:21

Yeah.

Tracey: 42:22

How are you dealing with that trauma, Kel?

Kelly: 42:25

Recognizing it is the biggest thing, just recognizing it and then doing things without the fear of rejection. So actually saying how I feel. Yeah. Because, there's that fear putting it practice. Yeah. If I say how I feel, then that's gonna be too much for that person or, that kind of thing. So just doing it. Yeah. Practicing it. Yeah. Yeah. And if that person rejects me because of that's not my person. Yeah, absolutely. I was gonna say, you have to have confidence in the fact that if someone isn't accepting of that, then inevitably they're not your person. Yeah. And the thing that comes up a lot I think a lot of women is what I read about emotionally unavailable people, that's a theme. Oh geez. And being more attracted to unavailable or emotionally unavailable people because that's your inner child coming back and saying okay, now I'm gonna have a chance to get this.

Tracey: 43:14

So speaking to that, I wanna. Mention something that I've been thinking about that I was listening to on a podcast today that was talking about people's why in life. And if having trauma affects or influences your why and the person talking about this said Absolutely. Usually someone's why is based on their trauma and their trauma is what develops their why. Like for instance, if you were someone who did experience abuse, just taking that as an example cuz it's an easy one and it's one they used. Say you were someone that experienced abuse or a parent was abusive and you were constantly protecting your siblings. Then you turn into a protector and then you turn into that type of person that's always protecting or trying to help or nurture people. Wow. And you establish your why based on your trauma. On the flip side of that, what he was saying is that our why and whatever we're doing to execute the why is really the result of what we lacked. Give me an example. I agree with that. If our why ends up being that we're the protector it's usually driven by we're helping the people and giving them what we lacked.

Kelly: 44:35

Lindsay, are you still alive? Think about that. I'm here. Yep. Yep. Wow. I agree. Oh my God. I need to process that. It's so true. So true.

Mike: 44:46

But there's many facets of that, but I think that all circles back to there's many parts into being a protector. A nurturer a healer. Yeah. Like all those things are from different experiences and over giver. You wanna call'em different traumas, go ahead. But different experiences, but they all could be rooted to one major trauma for sure. I can think of my own and you know where it all stems from for sure. Is that the podcast that you put in our group chat trace?

Tracey: 45:15

No, this is a different one, but I can send it to you guys. Okay. Yeah, I would like to listen to that. Yeah. I'm not even actually finished it. I was listening to it on my walk tonight and the guy who the gentleman was interviewing, you guys will know him because he is a big motivational speaker and I think he's a big entrepreneur as well. So he does a lot of talks on this type of stuff, and that is one of the things he teaches or he focuses on with people is finding their why. This was a whole conversation he was having. I don't know his name or can't think of it off the top of my head or else I'd say, but I will share it with you guys for sure. Cool. Thank you. Yeah, I thought that was very interesting. it's one of those we dig into that, we joke, but I think there's some truth to it that, your phone's listening to you or whatever. Yeah.

Kelly: 46:00

Yeah.

Tracey: 46:00

But to be honest with you, I actually picked this episode, so it wasn't like, it didn't. Pop up for me or something. But yeah. I think we get called to these things. Purpose. Yes. On purpose. That's what I felt like, because literally there's been a pattern over the last two days since you brought up this topic. Kel. That I've been listening to stuff and it's come through. That's awesome. Yeah. I love it.

Kelly: 46:23

Yeah, love when that happens. All right. That was interesting. anything else you guys wanna add or no?

Tracey: 46:33

What's that? When you got a word in edgewise when we let you speak?

Lindsey: 46:41

I don't know. I think we're all traumatized and I think antidote, how do you fix it? I think you just have to, it's experiential, healing. You just have to, yeah, keep living, live it, You just gotta live. But sometimes what you logically understand in your brain and what you're feeling in your heart don't match, traumatic events are stored in non-verbal things, emotional things, behavioral things. And then when you're trying to heal it all, you have to show your nervous system. you're safe, right? Yes. To tell your brain, I know you just said the word fix, the word heal better than fix because fix means that something's broken. Yeah. And we're not broken. Like you just said, Lindsay, we all have this. Yep. And we're all whole, and we're all exactly where we're supposed to be. And when we decide to put down the nummers, then, the alcohol or whatever, then we get to see it all. And it doesn't last forever and we can all heal but we're not broken. Ring the sponge out, that's my, that's ring the sponge of yeah. I think the only way that you can actually heal and start to work on these things is exactly what you just said. Kelly, put down the numbers because alcohol, drugs, it could be anything. Anything that you're using. Food supplie, food porn, whatever. Yeah. Shopping. Yeah. The only real healing starts when you, I don't know, how do you say it? You sit. Sit. Yeah. Be quiet and you sit with yourself and be with yourself. Let it ring your fucking sponge. Cry, whatever you Yeah. If you don't do it, then it's never gonna get out, man.

Kelly: 48:18

No, exactly. Ring out the sponge. There's the name of episode. The name of our episode is, that's the name. It's, oh my gosh. I love it.

Mike: 48:27

And it's a form of inflammation too.

Tracey: 48:29

was gonna say, as Lindsay was referring to, it also sits in your body, right? Yes. And then it does

Kelly: 48:36

Look at Dr. Joe Dispenza. He has amazing work on that. Dr. Joe. Dr. Joe Dispenza. Yep. You will manifest disease. And pain and inflammation. Oh, if you don't let this go. Okay, let's wrap it up. We should also call this episode Mike's new haircut. Mike's new haircut. Ringing out the sponge, Tracey will decide okay, everybody, thanks for joining us. You can find us on Instagram. We have a link in our show notes to our Facebook community. Reach out if you have questions, comments, topic ideas, or if you wanna be a guest on the show. Thanks everybody for sharing right from your heart. I loved it. And till next time, keep laughing. Good night,

Mike: 49:23

AIOS. Bye

Kelly: 49:25

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