High Functioning Alcoholism, Season 2 Ep.24

This topic sparked an interesting discussion about how we define what it means to be a High Functioning Alcoholic. Is this term contributing to the stigmas society has about what it looks like to have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol? High functioning perpetuates the idea that its ok to reward ourselves for our accomplishments at the end of the day with alcohol. Are we using the fact that we are high functioning as an excuse to continue to drink? This term can actually be the thing holding you back from reaching your true potential. We shouldn't see this term as a positive when in reality were just getting by trying to accomplish the things society pressures us to.  We are challenging the notion that you can be high functioning  when you are drinking, as we believe these 2 ideas are a complete contradiction. 
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Transcript

Kelly: 0:02

Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, Mike Sutton and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories. We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support.

Tracey: 0:42

Hello everyone and welcome back to the LAF Life Podcast. This is season two, and tonight we have everybody in the house. Yay. Yay. The last couple episodes, we have been short some members because of a scheduling conflict, so it's nice to have everybody here. And tonight we have a very interesting topic. Tonight we are gonna talk about high functioning alcoholism, another maybe somewhat controversial topic, and we all have a different opinion about it, but we thought we'd dive into it. For our listeners, so it's clear what the actual definition is by the American Alcohol Association. It is. When someone is a high functioning alcoholic, They may be able to carry out daily tasks of living, such as a job hygiene, childcare, paying bills, and participating in social activities without exhibiting the full range of clinical impairments commonly associated with alcohol use disorder. However, someone who has experienced fewer external consequences as a result of their drinking can still benefit from professional health for their compulsive alcohol use. I feel like that term, being high functioning would encourage or could potentially encourage somebody to keep drinking because just like you said before we hit record, you're not the person drinking out of a brown paper bag on the street, on a park bench. You still show up to your job and you're still a mom to your kids. And it can I don't know, like it, it's a, it's all an illusion. Like it's an act. High functioning alcoholic, you still have a problem just because you're able to do daily life and you show up for your job and you haven't been fired because you're hungover and drunk or whatever. It's a weird term. It's almost like glorifying the fact that you can drink heavily. And still do life.

Kelly: 2:44

I didn't know what the term, like I didn't use the term until after I quit. So it wasn't like I was walking around going I'm high functioning, but I was high functioning. Like externally, my world looked amazing internally. I was dying, but like you said, Lynn, that was my measurement. If I ever questioned my drinking, I was always like I'm not in the gutter. Yeah, that was kinda my thing, and like the brown paper bag, everything looked amazing.

Tracey: 3:12

I have a lot of issues with this term when I'm thinking about it now, because I feel like it's something we need to get rid of. I feel like it feeds into the stigmas around alcoholism. It feeds into the stigma that you have to be in the gutter. Drinking from a brown paper bag jobless. Exactly. Or completely hit rock bottom to have a problem. And Lindsay said, I do think it glorifies it. Oh, I can drink my face off and just do it way better than you because I can continue functioning, and quite frankly, the people that I know have utilized that term in my life, and I'm not speaking of Kelly cuz Kelly has mentioned it about herself. Previously, but the people that have used that term in my life, I almost feel like it was an excuse. Yes, it was an excuse for their drinking, for their poor behavior in other ways to say, I'm still going to work. I'm still doing this. I'm still being a member of my family, and all those things, or they could still be being successful, but like you said, Kel, when you mentioned being high functioning, you said you were dying inside. Yeah. So really? Yeah. Were you high functioning? To me, those two things, I was high functioning externally, to keep up with society. I had a job and my kids were healthy and it looked like I said, it looked like everything was good, but on the inside, like the last year of my drinking career is what turned me inward. And that's when I realized I was dying inside. I didn't even know. I thought this is what we do. We party, we my saying and I thought it was hilarious and it was true. Work hard, play harder. That's how I lived. And that's what I thought success was. That's high functioning when you can do that. So yeah. High functioning to what? To function in normal society that values success and achievement. And I would pose the question too. Again, what do you quantify as high functioning, if you think about it, you might have been successful or accomplishing certain things, but don't you believe that if you weren't drinking, imagine how much more you could have been accomplishing. That's what I'm saying, that last year, 2017, I had a business coach and I realized that even though I was performing and producing and achieving, I was not reaching my full potential, and that's because I was hungover every day I went into my office. Yeah. So I feel like it's like a fallacy, right? It's fake, but it

Kelly: 5:48

I was high functioning with work, right? And getting shit done. But did I love myself? No. Was I spiritually connected? No. Was I doing things I love, like being in nature and things like that? No. So that's why I say I was dying inside. Yeah. But if you looked at what, an outsider looking in and not asking any of those questions. Yeah. High functioning. Yeah.

Tracey: 6:13

Mike.

Mike: 6:14

Hey, how's it going? I think the term, obviously requires a definition as you've alluded to. We talked about it even off camera. But I think it's like a big disguise or yes. It's a disguise in nature. some people I know personally, I look at them and go, how the hell do you get all that stuff done? And I know how much they consume. I don't know the numbers, but I look and go, there's no way I could do that and not anymore, but. There's no way I could have done that. I think everybody's got a limit. And I think like anything we build a tolerance to things. As sad as that is. Yes. Like for example I'm still at the office, but old me may have said I'm gonna work till nine 10 and then I'm gonna go to a bar and have a few drinks before I go home, cuz it's. I need to unwind or whatnot, and I think we need to look deeper into the why people become high-functioning alcoholics. We all, yeah, we always hit on the whole why do people drink? Because they've got unresolved issues in some capacity without going into great details. as we've done this podcast, we've talked to different people and we've seen stuff online and we've shared stuff, and, we can see that there are a lot of people who probably were high functioning alcoholics at one time, and like Kelly alluded to, is that, you you don't even really know that's what you're doing, but when you see it, Through somebody else's eyes or even your own eyes. It's holy cow, if I need to get better or become a better person, like you said, Kelly, you had a coach that kind of hit it on some things about how you could be better in your business. I gotta stop drinking, right? But like you said, Trac ey that title or whatever you're gonna call it, it's almost like it's a free pass. You know what? I can get stuff done. But you, I hear people, oh man, I'm hungover, I'm green, I'm this, I'm that. It's you get what you need to get it. It's what you get for doing what you do. It's interesting. It's definitely interesting.

Kelly: 8:06

Okay. This is what I just thought of. High functioning doesn't mean happy.

Lindsey: 8:11

Yes, I was gonna, it doesn't mean like that It doesn't mean fulfilled. It doesn't mean that you have a good relationship with yourself. High functioning means you're just doing stuff. And all those things I was doing now at this point in my life don't matter to me. The things that I thought mattered don't matter.

Mike: 8:28

It also doesn't mean positivity

Kelly: 8:30

so

Mike: 8:30

it doesn't mean anything Positive high functioning doesn't necessarily mean good.

Kelly: 8:35

And I,

Mike: 8:35

it's something to be proud of. Yeah's not something to be proud of. No, it's just a way of existing instead of thriving. And I don't think anybody who is abusing alcohol is thriving in their life. I really don't. Yeah,

Lindsey: 8:48

you nailed it. I was gonna say Kel, that's exactly what I was alluding to It's like you're just getting by. Yes. But we're considering ourselves high functioning. Not only that, high functioning to me is almost like you're overcompensating for the fact that you're drinking, or Mike said, using it as a disguise. By being high functioning. It's like you're trying to put on that facade to the world that you got it all together, but really you're crumbling and falling apart. Yes. Inside you try to convince yourself it's a game, right? Yes. It's trickery.

Kelly: 9:24

Yeah.

Lindsey: 9:25

I think it means you're out of alignment If you're a high functioning alcoholic, think about your life. You're probably in a job, a relationship surrounded by people you don't even like, and you're using alcohol to cope with it, but yet you're still showing up for this life that you've created that you're not even happy ab about, you're not even excited about because it's all fucking fake. Yeah. Or it's the pressure society puts on you, or you think you need to be a certain way. So you strive to hit all these goals and get this job and get this education and have this,$600,000 house and oh, look at all these clothes and I don't know. And then you're drinking to unwind and to numb out. It's just, indication that somebody is just out of alignment with themselves.

Kelly: 10:14

Totally. You can't be in alignment with yourself when you're abusing alcohol.

Lindsey: 10:18

That's why people drink because it's Everything. There's just so much pressure. Everything is so expensive and people are burning themselves out and grinding to the ground. Burning the candle at both ends. Yeah. And then they're drinking their faces off and they're numbing out but they still show up to work the next day. And then it's oh, I'm high, high functioning alcoholic, or I'm high functioning. I don't know if I would've even in my drinking days, I don't know if I would have labeled myself that, but looking back now, I'm like, man, if people knew the amount that I was drinking on weekends, it's embarrassing. Was I a high functioning alcoholic? I definitely showed up to my life and looked like I had everything together. Yet I was binge drinking on weekends. That's what I don't like about it, cuz I think it perpetuates all those things. It perpetuates the idea that we have to constantly be achieving. And then like you said the backlash or the fallout, fallout from that is that we drink and then drink more. Yeah. Because we feel all those pressures, but then two. It also perpetuates that idea that we can make excuses for it, or it makes us somehow superior to someone who isn't high functioning, who doesn't manage their alcohol or their drinking problem as well. And it's hit rock bottom. Yeah. And this is why not a superpower to me. It's like I wanna get rid of that term. I think it just feeds into all the stigmas that we have around people and drinking problems.

Kelly: 11:56

And I think I said this before we hit record, but I never would've described myself as high functioning, but I sure did use the fact that I could produce and achieve to keep on drinking. I was like, wow. Yeah, but look at how well I'm doing. I can keep doing this.

Tracey: 12:13

Yeah. And I think that's the case for a lot of people. Kel, like I said, I know that there's people very close to me that's how they would be described because they ran businesses and stuff like that. And it's yeah, but really were you, because your family was being affected around you too. Let's be honest, if I think of myself, Was I high functioning? Yeah. But was I the mother or being the mother that I wanted to be? Absolutely not. Was I being present for my child? So just because I got up every day and fricking made a lunch for my kid and got her to school, does that mean I was doing amazing? No, I don't think so. That means I would How it impacts the people around you getting

Kelly: 12:58

by and doing the bare minimum. Yeah. Get just getting by and doing the bare minimum. Minimum. Who wants that?

Tracey: 13:03

Going through the motions. That's what I would say. When I was drinking, that's what I was doing. Yeah. And going through the motions for me was just ticking things off my list every day of what I had to do to get through the day. And that meant doing my job, being a mom, making lunches, making dinner. Yeah. But that didn't mean that I was. Succeeding or being fulfilled or winning. Now that I look back

Kelly: 13:32

yeah. Now on the other side of it, of course yeah, frick my life was so dull and I was so dead inside and just absolutely had so much self-loathing. Yeah. But never would've seen that while I was drinking and never would've seen it.

Tracey: 13:49

To me it was like Groundhog day.

Kelly: 13:51

Yeah. Yes,

Tracey: 13:53

man, the same day over and over again, except I said the other day to somebody, except my appropriate time to start drinking in the evening. Kept getting earlier and earlier. Ooh, yeah. So I think if you look at how your relationships are doing, just because you're showing up for life and succeeding and accomplishing things and your setting goals and achieving them well, geez, when I look back, my drinking was affecting relationships in my life behind closed doors. The close relationships to me. I never thought of it like that until you mentioned that trace about how like it could be affecting relationships. So I think if people are really honest, anybody who's drinking binge drinking I think if it's affecting your relationships, that's not really high functioning, is it? That's what I mean. What does that even mean? Because to me, yeah, it doesn't. Mean what I think people believe it means, right? Again, just because you're not, not showing up for work or losing your job or whatever, it just goes back to the fact that doesn't mean you don't have a problem. Or your relationship with alcohol is unhealthy and it is affecting your life, high functioning or not. Just cuz you're getting through the day doesn't mean that there aren't things in your life that are being affected by that addiction. I think you were gonna say something, Mike there.

Mike: 15:18

Yeah. What I was gonna say is if you backtrack to what you guys were saying, like when Lindsay's talked about the house, not the fact that it's a$600,000 house, but the house is part of the equation of life and, that comes the job and there's all these things that were I guess taught in some way or, programmed yeah. Thank you. That's a really good way of putting it and those things end up leading to people will. Consuming, which internally we always want more. Yeah. Not only more, but we're trying to get through with what we need to get through with the necessities and if we can function at a level of, taking the edge off with whatever it is and be def defined as these high functioning users, alcoholics, drugs, whatever, then it's like, what are we really chasing? What is it that we're, as you said, programmed to chase? I don't know. Lately I've seen a lot about, I've watched a lot of Not so much podcasts, but short interviews with very successful business people. The question was always, was it worth it? Was it worth chasing the money? Was it worth all that? What did you miss out on? Those types of things. I think that it's got some root to high functioning in the fact that go. We're in this go society when really it's like, Shouldn't we be, slowing down if we can. I get it. The economy is really crazy right now. We know there's a massive issue with rent and people being able to get mortgages. I just it's crazy. It's very crazy.

Kelly: 16:48

It's the go go. Without a healthy way to wind down from that go. That's what you choose. Cause there's nothing wrong with hustling all of that stuff. If you can find no. A balance with that. But what the problem I found was that I didn't know how to wind down from that intense life that I was living. So I went for the wine. I take responsibility for everything I did, but I sure did get a lot of messages saying that this is what everybody does, so I'm gonna do it too.

Mike: 17:18

For sure. That's what I was trying to hit on. You nailed it. Yeah, there is nothing wrong with go going for that stuff, but having the outlets aside from, alcohol, drugs, whatever you're right. Better outlets.

Lindsey: 17:31

I think there's only so long you can keep the balls in the air too just to be honest. Cause you, you think you're high functioning and you can live this life, but then you're able to drink and still complete everything. I think inevitably one day it's all gonna come crashing down. Oh, for sure. For sure. And that's the thing, I think it does come crashing down on those high functioning people. Obviously it did for Kelly, it does come. Down on those high functioning people just in different ways than that poor guy who couldn't function and lost his job or whatever. It just comes out in a different way, in a different form. It doesn't necessarily mean that person hits rock bottom and loses everything, right? But they're losing stuff along the way, and that is where it comes out, right? Yeah. They're not only losing maybe physical stuff, but they're also losing a part of Yes. Their integrity, their soul, whatever you wanna call it. Absolutely. I firmly believe that everybody's gonna hit that rock bottom. It's just a matter of. At what point in life do you see it and is it sometimes too far to turn back? Because, my dad was hands down, like on definition, high functioning alcoholic and ultimately he killed him. He was a brilliant dude and drank to his body, basically started to rot. Like no joke, he broke his hip in a bar, he fell, broke his hip, went into the hospital, never came out and it was holy smoke. Sad to see. But that was, were the choices that he made. You could see the regret on him when he was close to the end, but yeah, he probably had a lot of different times in his life where it's okay, this is it? This is it, but you only get so many. This is it chances and it's true. Yeah. You gotta figure it out.

Kelly: 19:19

So it's gotta end at some point. It's either gonna end Yeah, for sure. horribly, or you make the choice and just make a change. And it's not simple. I'm not saying it's that easy, but yeah, it's gonna come to an end one way or another.

Tracey: 19:33

You ladies were saying you're out of alignment, you're out of balance. You can only be out of alignment and out of balance for so long. Yeah. Till it tips over to one side. Even in what you were saying, Kel, how you can have the hustle and you can be high achieving and all those things. But then finding a way to have that wind down, that's a healthy wind down. Even if you wanna be hustling and high achieving, you still need to find that balance some way, somehow. Yeah, and prioritizing the self-care and the health. I had a Reiki client the other day very high achieving. And we got into a really good discussion about that. Choosing to take, 15 minutes out of your day to meditate or to go for a walk outside, things like that. And it's like we've been conditioned to Use those things as a reward. I worked really hard today, so now I'll go for a walk or I'll go for a walk after I finish this work task. We'll no the priority has to be that stuff first, and then all of those other things do fall into place way more easily.

Mike: 20:40

Yeah. You're not as stressed out. And that's a big part of it. Stress, and then stress leads to. Bad sleep and it's like a fucking Dominos. It's just ridiculous. Yeah.

Kelly: 20:50

So it's self-care first. You might see what's happening inside, either, your internal functions are not high functioning, your body inside is not high functioning. If you're consuming alcohol, like there's no way. You're talking about gut health.

Lindsey: 21:07

Everything. Yes. Gut health, brain

Mike: 21:10

organ health.

Lindsey: 21:11

Organ health. Yeah, exactly.

Kelly: 21:13

There's no way. There's a lot,

Mike: 21:15

there's a lot connected to gut. Gut's the root of a lot of different things. Especially disease, so you're right. You're definitely right. And then there's more and more studies coming out that with its relation to mental health and Right. A lot of these people that are excessive drinkers, undiagnosed, you can tell that there's some issues. I'm not a psychologist or a doctor, not trying to pretend to be, but you can see it's wow. Okay. Is your alcohol contributing to the way your mind is right now?

Kelly: 21:43

Likely everybody's inflamed inflammation. Yeah. Yeah. Great point. Absolutely.

Tracey: 21:49

Absolutely. You weren't on the last episode, Mike, but Kelly was talking about how the gut is related to your mental health.

Mike: 21:56

Oh, okay. Yeah. And the chemical imbalance that everybody talks about with mental health, the chemicals are in your gut. Yeah. Thousand percent. And how we all know that alcohol is poison, so we know it's not doing anything good for our gut. No.

Lindsey: 22:12

Oh.

Mike: 22:12

Along with a lot of other things too, like not just alcohol, but that's the basis of what we're here for. But yeah, no, I'm sure we've been talking about that forever.

Tracey: 22:21

And that's a thing a lot of people can be high functioning in life. But eventually, as we were saying, it's gonna catch up to them and a lot of times that catches up to them physically. Like with your dad, Mike? Yeah. And like with quite a few people I know that would be considered high functioning. They had a health scare that stopped them in their tracks and that was their moment of they didn't have a choice, but they had to stop.

Mike: 22:48

Some get more than others,, but I think it's definitely, there's something to it. Soul based, I don't know. I'm always on that. I think, everybody's got a soul and.

Tracey: 22:57

Oh yeah. Some people are like cats. They got nine lives. Yeah.

Mike: 23:02

Or what's the lesson like? I always say, yeah, you come to that fork in the road, which way are you gonna go? You gonna keep going left? Or are you gonna go right one time and say, oh, look at this path. Holy smokes. So it's hard. Let's be truthful here. Yeah. We're not trying to imply that it's, a walk in the park and it's, it's right. It takes bloody work. But it is just one choice. It's one choice, but it does take work, absolutely. Let's not sugarcoat it. It's does take work. And we've always talked about how there are things you can do. We've many times we've talked about, this hiking, yoga, blah, blah, blah, blah, with different guests and We'll keep reiterating these things. It's, there's ways to help you get through the rough patches and you know what, sometimes you have to sit through the rough patches. It's just an unfortunate part of getting stronger at something mentally, it's unfortunate, but you're only gonna get stronger. It's a practice every day. Yeah. It's practice not drinking. Practice, man. It's a different kind of practice. Sorry. There's an old spoof. I don't know if you guys know who Alan Iverson is. He's an old NBA player and he was getting interviewed and he was a star and the guy says, blah, blah, blah, blah something about practice. And he just looks at it like practice, like we're talking about. Practice. It's very talk about practice, man. Like not the game practice. Sorry, go ahead. It's okay. Yeah, it's interesting. It is. Life's interesting. You can all sit here and say do you not have a clearer mind about how you can approach life and how you battle the things that are thrown at you on a day-to-day basis as opposed to being high functioning. Right? Absolutely. I think on high functioning you tend to just react because that's all you really have, rather than, Hey, the three, I'm like oh yes.

Lindsey: 25:05

Always being on, always having to go and do and react and decide and oh yeah, there's no okay, let's take a step back and take a couple breaths and meditate on this and sleep on it and think about it. No, it's high functioning. Yeah. Yeah.

Kelly: 25:23

Where does that come from? Hi Functioning. high Resolution, where does that belief come from? Why does everybody think they have to do so much? Oh, god. Why think you do so much? It comes from all the societal pressures. Yeah, like everything else, right? We've been conditioned to believe that it's important for us to be constantly achieving and in a fast paced world where everything's changing and we're trying to keep up with everybody else. And then, yes, as Mike is pointing at his phone, pointing to his phone, it's the social media. Yeah, social media. Keeping up with the Joneses has been around for it's a while. It's all fake. It's all fake. Yeah. So then where do we, why do we do it? Yeah. And then how do you stop doing that? Where do you go? Validation? Where do you find validation and worthiness elsewhere In yourself. Yourself.

Lindsey: 26:13

Yeah. But how, that's hard, right? That seems hokey for people. So look at this oh, okay. That's

Kelly: 26:19

why I asked the question, and I wanna hear it. Yeah. Yeah. So look at it this way. You worked your ass off. And I mean everybody, to make that change of, look, I need to become a better me, I'm giving up alcohol. It's the same type of process with social media and it's not gonna happen overnight, I think social media is a massive problem., you guys know I'm not on Facebook. I'm part of, should it come with a warning? I don't know. I think it should come someone a bloody training or something. The training. Here's remember when Facebook started module in what, mid two thousands or late two thousands and he's I remember

Mike: 26:56

right here you go. And like a drug, like alcohol. Holy shit. I like it

Lindsey: 27:01

is a drug. Yep. You wanna see what everybody else is doing. And I think we wanna see what everybody else is doing because we're using it as a measuring stick. Yes. Making our own lives. So what would we be doing if, yeah. What would we be doing with our lives if we weren't seeing what everybody else was doing? Constantly we'd be doing that are more in alignment with who we are. Yeah.

Tracey: 27:22

We'd be focusing on ourselves and not on everybody else. Yeah.

Mike: 27:26

Look, I think social media's got some really positive things. Grandmas have got, social media accounts to see what the grandkids that are halfway across the country. That's great. That's memes a thinking tool

Tracey: 27:39

but it goes back to everything else. Simplified, Mike, that's what Facebook started as a way to connect with people. Now it's just turned into this monster beast of something totally different. If it stayed in its original state, it would still be that wonderful tool for grandparents and friends to see what their friends were doing abroad.

Mike: 28:03

I think so. I think you're right. I think you're right.

Tracey: 28:06

I didn't like, I know I got on Facebook because I moved to Calgary. And it gave me a chance to stay connected with people here and see what was going on with my friends and family's life here. And that's really how I utilized it for the longest time. But now it's just turned into this, promote everything, advertise everything. It's just not right. It's a connection tool for. Blowing yourself up pretty much.

Mike: 28:33

You could have does for promotion of alcohol, right? Before social media there was, TV beer commercials and more so in the US than here in Canada. But we know about the, I remember the bold beer commercials and stuff, beer posters,

Kelly: 28:48

the people do the advertising for. That's exactly the, everybody, they don't even need to pay for ads. They just let people go on Facebook for free and then they post pictures of their own booze. You're right. High functioning people. Wow. I don't know if they're high functioning. I see the pictures. Then I'm like, show me your morning pictures. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracey: 29:15

Yeah, it's just another thing for all the big giants out there to make money now. Yeah. That's all.

Mike: 29:22

So the, maybe the solution is we all live in a commune and just with no internet and

Tracey: 29:28

The best thing that could happen to us is something blows up the internet or the internet completely crashes cuz we maxed it out. And we're all forced to be off our phones, off our computers, off our technology.

Lindsey: 29:44

Don't you guys remember when like Instagram crashed for a day? Yes. People lost their shit. Lost their minds. Who We survived you guys? We survived that. Yeah. When is that? Oh, when was that? When was that? Year and a half ago maybe? I dunno. Something like that. Yeah. People like just

Kelly: 30:02

lost it. Isn't that say something? It's sad is what it's very sad. I did have a thought though when we were talking about Mike had alluded to, why are people, why are they going to alcohol? What's creating the problem or what is creating. The person being high functioning. And I was thinking just about going back to balance. Is it that we're all searching for that balance and we don't know how to create it? So instead of creating it, we're just getting lost in the alcohol or utilizing alcohol as a tool to distract us from finding it. So it's like a false sense of balance, right? Because it's yeah. Yes, because the first 20 minutes functioning, the first 20 minutes are good. They're, but everything after that is not so well, and it's a false sense of balance in the sense, going back to the rewarding yourself, right? Yes. It's, this is my reward, this is my self-care.

Lindsey: 31:08

The rewards shouldn't cause suffering. And they shouldn't ruin relationships and they shouldn't cause cancer and self-loathing and shame like that. Like really? Let's think about how rewarding alcohol is. It's fucking not no, you're borrowing from tomorrow to relax today. Because you're not gonna be functioning at your best the next day. It doesn't matter. The people who are like, oh I don't get hangovers. Bullshit your body inside. You may not feel. Hungover, but there is no, you don't feel your best. You don't feel your best, and your body is sure not functioning at its best either. That's not a reward. Things that cause pain and suffering and depression and anxiety and kill people, we've gotta stop thinking that those things are rewards.

Kelly: 31:59

There's no benefit. No. Speaking of not having hangovers Linds. It's funny you say that because I've expressed many times that I didn't have extreme hangovers. I remember not how new girls describe your hangovers, but you're right, because if I could tell you how I function or feel when I wake up now, Alcohol free in comparison to when I was drinking, right? Oh, it's way better. And not to mention that I did express, or I have expressed that my hangover was. Anxiety, constant anxiety. Yeah. I woke up every day with that. Yeah. And just to not have that anymore is like life changing.

Lindsey: 32:41

Yeah, for sure.

Kelly: 32:42

I wanted to say, oh I think if people have been drinking their whole adult life they may not even realize how good it can get. Yes. That's the feeling that Tracey just described, like now you see what quality sleep is. And not having anxiety or hang tight. But yeah, you actually might not even know how good it can feel.

Lindsey: 33:04

I think too, give sobriety, give living alcohol free. The same chances you you give alcohol. Because when I think back to me, despite continued negative consequences, that got increasingly worse over time. I still drank. But it's like we have to have that same mentality and give sobriety or an alcohol free life that same chance that we give alcohol. We keep consuming even though it's not good for us. But what if, you started out and said, okay, for the next 14 days, I'm not gonna drink alcohol. See how you feel. Give it a chance. Yeah. At first it might feel uncomfortable. But I think if you give it a chance, I think you'll see and feel a difference, give yourself the gift of living for a period of time without alcohol to see how your life is. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. And just drinking every day for most of our adult life or however often we do, becomes our norm. And that's why you don't know any different when you wake up in the morning. Not drinking can become your norm too. Yeah. I think that's a great approach Linds. That's how I approached it when I, yeah, me too. Went on my journey was, I'm just gonna not drink today, not buy any alcohol and see how I feel and see if I can do that for the next couple days and see what it feels like. And here I am almost three years later. Yeah, that's amazing. And feels pretty damn good, yeah, and I'd say I'm way more high functioning. Yeah, I would. I would say that exactly. For sure. I would say that for sure people, and

Tracey: 34:42

I know as a whole person, not as a whole, just going through the motions, getting through the day, checking off my to-do list.

Kelly: 34:51

Yeah. Yeah. I'm way happier. Which is more important to me than producing stuff.

Lindsey: 34:56

Exactly. Yes. I think this was a great discussion, guys, and like I said, I loved it. Yeah, I would be a big advocate for getting rid of that whole expression. And with it throwing any excuses out the window. Not to say, like Mike mentioned, it's not easy. But definitely it is way better. Change is hard on the bright side. Yeah, any change is hard. I don't want somebody to listen to this and, get scared. Cuz I remember thinking, oh, I'm never gonna be able to do this. how am I gonna live without wine? Yeah. What am I gonna do? I don't think I can do this. But any change isn't easy. Changes are, uncomfortable. Your brain basically. It tries to keep you in routine. And tries to keep you doing the same things to keep you safe. Cuz that's genetically how we're programmed. So when you go against what you know is normal when you're trying to make changes in your life, the alarm bells are gonna go off. The panic, the anxiety the wanting to go back to where you came from, that's gonna start raging because, Our chemistry is designed to keep us safe and pattern and routine and, even those unhealthy patterns, that's why people stay in unhealthy relationships with, their job, their partner, because it's just, what you know is safe and what you don't know is unsafe. If you can just push through and just, make that decision. To do something different. Any change is hard, but this, living alcohol free, literally hands down is the easiest thing I do every day. Hands down, I do not regret it. And Tracey said, we didn't start out thinking, okay, that's it. I'm never gonna drink again. The longer I go, I'm like, I can't see adding it back into my life. I just, I can't. Yeah, if you're listening and or you think ugh, something resonates with you and you think, oh, I'm, I think I have to make a change. It's any change, it's gonna be hard not just giving up alcohol or a substance that you're using, but I'm telling you don't let your brain chemistry talk you out of doing this for yourself because you fucking deserve it. You deserve the best life.

Tracey: 37:10

That could be something that works for you too though, Lynn. Telling yourself Yeah, that, yep. If you've made any other major changes in your life, it's no different than that. Yes. See it as I was able to do this before I can also do this.

Kelly: 37:25

Yeah. And it's okay to not be able to do it on your own. I couldn't do this. Yes. I had to get outside help and that's okay.

Lindsey: 37:32

Yes. Love that. That's such a good reminder. Don't be afraid to ask for help. A hundred percent. Thanks guys. This was great. Thank you listeners for listening. If you wanna reach out to us, you can find us on Instagram at LAF Life Podcast and in our Facebook community at LAF Life. And until next time, keep laughing. Goodnight guys. See you Goodnight. Bye bye. Bye.

Kelly: 38:00

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