Deb Masner, Alcohol Tipping Point Season 2 Ep. 25

In our last Guest episode of Season 2, it was such a pleasure to sit down with fellow podcaster Deb Masner from Alcohol Tipping Point. After many failed attempts at moderation and taking a few short breaks from alcohol, Deb finally reached her tipping point and gave up alcohol for good in January 2020. Shortly after she decided to create Alcohol Tipping Point as a place to provide resources and educate people on the many health risks associated with drinking alcohol. As a Registered Nurse and Health & Wellness Coach Deb made it her mission to help anyone looking to reduce their alcohol consumption by providing multiple resources. Through her online platform she offers support by facilitating "alcoholidays" for those looking to take a break from alcohol. She also offers 1 on 1 coaching sessions as well as she has her podcast Alcohol Tipping Point. Learn more about Deb's personal journey and what Alcohol Tipping Point is offering this community by tuning in to  this episode.

To connect with Deb follow her on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alcoholtippingpoint/
or check out her Website: https://www.alcoholtippingpoint.com/

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Transcript

Kelly: 0:02

Welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, Mike Sutton and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories. We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support.

Tracey: 0:42

Hello everyone and welcome to the Laugh Life podcast. This is season two and episode 25. We have the last guest of our season joining us tonight, Deb Masner. Deb is a registered nurse and a health and wellness coach, we are excited to have Deb join us and share with us her story. I was reading Deb's bio actually, and I found a couple things interesting here as she described her relationship with alcohol directly related to our last episode actually, because you had mentioned here, Deb, that you were A gray area drinker and that you were pretty high functioning. To the outside world, which was actually our topic on the last episode, what it meant to be high functioning and how we think that's a fake or false term and quite frankly, I'd like to get rid of it. You can get into that more with us as you tell us your story. We're happy to have you here. So excited to hear more about you and the Alcohol Tipping Point. Deb is also a fellow podcast. So if you wanna start off, Deb, just telling us your background and what your relationship with alcohol was that led you to doing what you're doing now.

Deb: 1:58

Thank you for having me on the show, everybody. I'm Deb Masner. I live in Boise, Idaho, I'm the founder of Alcohol Tipping Point. I'm also a registered nurse, like you said, and Health Coach and I have the podcast and I've been running monthly dry groups too to help people practice not drinking. Is how I say it. I call them holidays. I love that. That's cute. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Just to have a safe space for people to take a break from drinking and just reevaluate their relationship with alcohol. Then my story, so it's pretty typical. I feel like American suburban. Typical teenager growing up in a college town, I grew up at the University of Idaho in a little town. It was all centered around the college and we actually were across the border from, was Washington State University, so huge college towns. And with that came a lot of drinking and a lot of drinking at an early age. So I started in junior high. I'm like, I hope my kids aren't listening. I have teenagers, but they know that anyway. But I started in junior high, just sneaking some Jack Daniels refilling our parents' liquor cabinets with watered down liquor. And then just graduated to high school drinking. Socially. It just was what we did growing up in this small town. Went to college at U of I, I said Hey, that's where I learned to drink. I was really proud of it, proud of doing KE stands and what that looked like. And again, it was just like drinking culture. That was what everybody did. It felt normal. And then I moved down to Boise with my husband worked as a nurse at the va. Ironically now, I guess part of my patient panel on the med-surg unit was detoxing veterans who came in there for alcohol withdrawal. Wow. So I know earlier you were talking a lot about. Comparison or being like high functioning. And so I would show up really hungover, having drank a bottle of wine after work or whatever that looked like. But I would compare myself to these veterans, usually men who were detoxing. I would be like, but I'm fine. I have a job. I'm the nurse. Everything's okay. So I just, I knew that I had a problem, but I. I also just wanted to find that magical pill of moderation. That I was really searching for, that I wanna be a quote unquote normal drinker. So I would take these breaks, I'd take a month long break and then prove to myself like, oh, you're fine, you're good. Go back to drinking and just wash, rinse, and repeat that for years. And then I had two girls and I decided to stay home. I was fortunate enough to get to do that and so I stayed home to take care of them and then that's when my drinking got worse when they were young. Just toddlers at home. I was really lonely and it just was my way to check out and be present physically, but not mentally. It got bad, but again, still I was like, okay, but I didn't wanna go to aa, didn't think I qualified for inpatient rehab and that sounded really extreme to me. Also, I had been like working with this population and I just was like, that's not me. And so it just kept me stuck for a long time. And then finally, I tried different things. I continued to take breaks. I tried naltrexone, I tried talking to people. They just didn't get it. They didn't see it with me either, cuz I was still, like we said, high functioning. I was. President of the P T a I was volunteering at the kids' school. I went back to work as a nurse. Everything on the outside was fine, but I knew inside. I'm like this just isn't right. Feels out of control. And so fast forward to, I guess it was 2018 was when I found Annie Grace and this Naked Mind. Some of you are nodding. Yeah. Yeah. And so for me, that was really paradigm shifting because it had always been like with alcohol and alcohol problems, it was, you are the problem. There's something wrong with you because you can't drink normally. And that paradigm shift to me was like, No listen, alcohol is the problem. It's highly addictive. It's terrible for your health. It's, it's just all these different things that came to light. And even as a nurse, all these different health concerns. I was like, I didn't know that. Like what? So that really blew open my world. And also opened up the social media aspect of it because there were Facebook groups and there were other people in there changing their drinking and I seemed to relate to them more. That really changed my thinking about drinking. And so I would still go back to drinking even after doing these. Annie Grace does live alcohol experiments where you take a break. I got to the point, though, where I realized I'm think I'm done. I'm done with drinking. I feel better without it. I'm ready to be done. I spent most of 2019 just really trying to get there. Then it wasn't until 2020, my last drink was January 1st, 2020 that I could really be done. And part of what I think really helped me be done is actually marrying the concepts of, yes, alcohol is a problem. It's shit for your health, and it's my responsibility. Oh, I so I did have to take ownership for that.

Lindsey: 7:55

When I discovered Annie Grace and the podcast and read her book and stuff that, gave a different perspective because society tends to look at the person like, what is wrong with you? Yeah, you can't handle your liquor, and we always, or not always, you hear that you can't handle your liquor and it's no, the substance. Is doing what it's designed to do. It is addictive. So when someone becomes addicted to it, it's not to shame the person because it's almost like that's the substance, it is doing what it's supposed to do, and anybody who consumes it, Can become addicted to it. Like you said, it's total garbage for your health. Putting the blame on the substance and, looking at it from that perspective, like it's not the person's actually having a normal reaction to the substance.

Deb: 8:50

Absolutely. Cause I had so much shame associated with it, I was quiet about it, I felt like I didn't have anybody to talk to about it. And yeah it was very helpful for me

Lindsey: 9:03

The high functioning part, I think after we did our episode on that last time, that enables us to hide it for as long as we do. Like the fact that, we do go to work and we are professionals and we show up. Then you're almost embarrassed that you are drinking as much as you are or that you are struggling with it. But then it's I'm not this person. I'm not acting, or I'm not addicted. I don't have withdrawal symptoms. It allows you to hide it and it enables you to stay drinking for longer.

Deb: 9:34

Absolutely. Yeah.

Tracey: 9:36

I found what you said very interesting about the people in the detox and how you were looking at them thinking I'm not that bad because I think that happens to a lot of people. And that was one of the things we were talking about as far as identifying yourself as high functioning, how it feeds into the stigma that you have to be hitting rock bottom or lose your job or whatnot. To have an issue or a problem with alcohol or be, or even to be considered an alcoholic, which is just not true. There's a lot of people that are abusing alcohol and not having healthy relationships with alcohol that are very, what we'd call high functioning, which. Is a total contradiction because as Kelly alluded to in that episode, nobody that is drinking or has an issue with drinking is high functioning.

Deb: 10:33

I also think you don't have to have a drinking problem to give up drinking. You can just for sure quit drinking because it is shit for your health. Exactly. And one of the things that I am really passionate about is just coming from the nursing world and healthcare is just getting the message out there about alcohol and how it affects your health, but also it's one of the few Diseases that we don't treat until you get to rock bottom, so when I was working as a nurse, one of my most recent jobs was a wellness nurse and we did preventative health and we treated pre-diabetes and pre-hypertension. We don't do that with substance use. You don't get treatment until you're rock bottom. Until you're showing up to be detoxed or you're in the ER. I really think getting people before they get to, moderate alcohol use disorder or severe alcohol use disorder, getting people earlier to recognize okay, let's look at your relationship with alcohol. Is this. Sustainable. Is this something you wanna do? Is this how you wanna live your life? How do you feel? Would you feel better without drinking?

Tracey: 11:46

Yeah that's really aligned with what happened with all of us, that's how we ended up, where we are making the choice to be alcohol free all at different levels and different in different ways, but we were all functioning. Sure. Whatever we would consider our rock bottom, but that was the other thing we were saying that everybody has a rock bottom. It just looks different. And rock bottom doesn't mean you've lost everything. It's what's rock bottom for you as an individual where you're ready to say, enough is enough. I don't wanna do this anymore.

Deb: 12:22

Yeah, definitely.

Lindsey: 12:24

I'm curious as a nurse we did an episode where we were talking about medications and consuming alcohol. Can you speak to, in your education as a healthcare professional, were you educated at all about alcohol and alcohol use disorder and alcohol and medications?

Deb: 12:42

Yeah, let me think back. It's been like 25 years. I hear you. I would say minimal. And at the time, again, it was like you're either an alcoholic or you're not. And you were just looking at the people that were on the extreme end of things. I think that the nomenclature to alcohol use disorder changed. It's only been like 20 years. So even though alcohol use disorder is now what we use it's the correct terminology, what we use in insurance coding and whatnot. There's still that. Use of alcoholic, there's that use of that term. There's still physicians who will just tell you, we'll just go to AA and they don't know the alternatives. They don't know about prescribing Naltrexone for alcohol cravings or camra, or usually you have to go to a specialist for that, or psychiatric nurse practitioner get those elsewhere. I would say my training back then was very minimal and I don't know how it is now the United States, it's just really, healthcare is run like a business. Yes. And for like primary care providers. Yeah. You have 15 minutes with your, yes. Patient and you don't even have time to talk 15.

Kelly: 14:01

We don't e we don't have 15. It's five or 10, I think. Yeah. So even if you're not making money off of healthcare, it's still like just cogs in a wheel and you're just running them through it. We're not always even screening for alcohol. And oh, you asked about medications. And Medications, yeah. Interactions with alcohol.

Lindsey: 14:21

I feel like doctors write prescriptions to people and I can't say for sure, sometimes I think, wow, did you know you're taking all these medications, even as a dental hygienist going over somebody's medical history, I'm like marking down all the medications that they're taking for all these different things that they're trying to treat, but yet they're telling me about all the wine they were drinking over the weekend. And I'm like, wait a minute here. Does your doctor know about this? Yeah, I just feel it gets glossed over oh, and don't drink on this.

Tracey: 14:52

We were saying we don't think it's standard practice for doctors to ask what's your relationship with alcohol when they're prescribing you something? Or how much do you drink? And that's a really scary thought. Yeah I agree a hundred percent. Do you find that people are surprised that you wouldn't be more educated being in the healthcare environment on the effects of alcohol?

Deb: 15:20

I don't know so much anymore cuz I think we all know that healthcare is lacking unless you go into a specialty. I guess as a nurse I was surprised, but I haven't had people go you didn't know that and you were a nurse. Okay. Yeah.

Kelly: 15:38

So you're drinking increased Deb when you were staying at home with your girls. And I know Trace mentioned earlier that you described yourself as a gray area drinker. So tell us more about that. I think that was just another category, another way of viewing myself besides an alcoholic, okay, I don't fit the terms. I wouldn't consider myself an alcoholic. I wouldn't want to identify myself that way. Oh, here's this terminology, gray area drinker. In hindsight now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, that's more like mild moderate alcohol use disorder. But even then I wasn't like looking at the criteria for that. I was looking at oh, here's gray area drinker. You're thinking about drinking more, and you're able to take breaks, but then you go back to it and then, it's just like the red flags of drinking. And another. Way to describe it, which I think is good. I think you guys had said, you talked about labels or you don't use labels, and I just think it's important for people to find. What fits with them and their identity. And use what fits for you. Some people say they're sober and some people say alcohol free. Some people use the term alcoholic. I use, I'm an alcohol free badass, so

Tracey: 16:59

Yeah, you are. Yeah. I love it.

Deb: 17:03

Yeah. I think labels and identity are really important and I think they help reduce stigma so that we can just address our relationship with alcohol without the shame and the blame and just all that extra emotional weight that comes with it. Yeah,

Tracey: 17:22

definitely. It makes people more comfortable with identifying it for themselves, right? Yeah. Yeah. It alleviates some of the fear that's around it. Exactly.

Kelly: 17:34

Yeah.

Mike: 17:35

Hey, Deb I have a question for you.. Did you have a moment, a bad situation that the light switch went off and said maybe I need to reconsider things?

Deb: 17:43

I just had a lot of little moments. Yeah. Of drinking too much of. Vomiting in bed of being hungover at the Y I remember one day going to the Y my kids would go to child watch and I would go work out also as a form of self-flagellation punishment for drinking the night before. But I remember I was so hungover. One day I just went and laid on the floor of the handicapped bathroom, the family stall, the family bathroom. I just laid on the floor for the whole hour. I couldn't Oh. But but that was years before I quit. Then I'd go back to it and I never got like in trouble with the lie, never had anything like that. I just had these series of horrible hangovers. What was that? Mike

Mike: 18:37

building blocks, moments like you, yeah. Just progressively get there. what happened to me. It just was one thing after the other. It's quit, no, I'm not quitting. Oh, two weeks, blah, blah. And it just finally, you just say, screw it. I'm done. Yeah. And it doesn't work for everybody, like you've alluded to, and we've always alluded to, but yeah. It took a lot of day. One a lot. I didn't get to a point where I was like, I'm done. No. But it's interesting. I don't know if you guys have noticed this or if you've had anyone on your podcast, or maybe one of you are. I've had a few people, I guess the terms spontaneous sobriety. I've had a few people who they've thought about their drinking, their problem, drinking, whatever, and they just got to the point where they were done and it was a switch for them. And they haven't drank since. And I'm like, really? Did you do any breaks? Did you do any, and they're like, no, I was just done.

Lindsey: 19:36

I feel like I did a lot of the breaks, and then it was a way for me, just like you said, to justify, see, I don't have a problem because I could go 30 days, and then it'd be like an accomplishment. Like I could put a check mark by it and be like, yep, 30 days without alcohol, I'm going to the lc and I'm getting my wine.

Kelly: 19:57

Yeah, same. It kept me, I don't know, it's kinda like the high functioning thing we were talking about. Yeah. That kept me drinking cause I was like, wow, if I had a problem, me too. I wouldn't be able to, I don't think I ever made it 30 days though. I think it was like more like 25 days maybe. But if I if I had a problem, I wouldn't be able to make it 25 days. But I did only decide to quit one time. I was always trying to, I love your term. What did you say? That I was always looking for the magical pill of moderation. Absolutely. That was my hamster wheel That exhausted me so much to the point where I did have to finally say, that's it. I quit forever. I can never drink again. And thankfully that was just one time.

Deb: 20:32

Nice. Yeah.

Tracey: 20:34

Yeah, me too. And actually, the fact that I hadn't taken a break for a really long time was what prompted me to. Do it forever. Because I actually was looking back on the fact that I couldn't remember the last day. I had gone a day without having wine and it had been well over a year, probably two year period since I'd had what you call a break. Prior to that, had I taken breaks or I'd done like a 30 day cleanse, yes, but leading up to me quitting, no. There was a long stint of probably almost two years where I had drank wine every day and I said to myself, I don't remember the last time I went a day without having at least a glass of wine. So enough is enough.

Deb: 21:22

Yeah, That's great. We're all different. What I've noticed is, even though we're all on our own journeys, and that's all different, but a lot of it is the same. It's just so interesting. I love hearing other people's stories. How they unwound the habit and changed and how they came out of it and what was their special code to unlock the, secret is really sobriety though, right? That's right.

Kelly: 21:48

Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Just don't drink. That's the magic.

Tracey: 21:52

Yeah. We've dug into that a lot with our guests, right? Yeah. Trying to offer that information and input back to everybody else. That's why we do this podcast is to try to just raise awareness to other people just like you, what you're trying to do. Just raise awareness of, what life can be like without it, because it's so socially accepted and it's. In our face all the time, and that's what everybody thinks the norm is. We're here to say that doesn't have to be the norm, and this could be your new norm, and it's amazing. It's so much better.

Deb: 22:27

Yeah. So much better. since you all are from Canada, do you feel like the culture's changing in Canada? They had the big guidelines come out about the low to no alcohol. How's Canada? Yeah,

Tracey: 22:43

Go ahead Kel. Yeah you guys made a lot of progress where you are

Kelly: 22:47

yeah, there's more talk about it. It's more mainstream. Where Lindsay and I live, we have a couple of sober markets they're called, it looks like a liquor store, but everything in there is all alcohol free alternatives. Just seeing them pop up everywhere Alcohol free events being planned and things like that. Really cool restaurants with really cool mocktail menus and things like that. Yeah, I definitely see it changing. And the younger generation, they don't drink. I have one teenager left and two young adults my boys. Drinking isn't like it was when I was their age. Yeah.

Deb: 23:20

That's awesome.

Tracey: 23:21

Yeah. That's very promising. But yeah, we're definitely seeing a shift. There's no doubt more and more recently, I've been seeing on the news since they did release the new guidelines. There's been a lot of stuff on the news. We've mentioned on some of our episodes, there was a gentleman on one of our news channels a couple weeks ago that was talking about surviving summer sober. And talking about tips and some of the red flags if you have an issue or a problem with your relationship with alcohol.

Lindsey: 23:51

I don't even like the way that's worded surviving summer without alcohol. I'm like oh my God. Blow my brains out. It's not surviving like we're thriving.

Tracey: 24:02

Yeah.

Lindsey: 24:02

it's not like a, oh my God, how am I gonna get through this? That's the narrative we have to change.

Kelly: 24:09

Yes, exactly. Yeah. I love how Deb calls herself a alcohol free badass.

Deb: 24:16

Yeah. That's, I'm the

Mike: 24:18

cool one.

Kelly: 24:19

She's the cool

Mike: 24:19

one. Yeah.

Deb: 24:21

That's why I called my breaks holidays too. Yeah. Like it's a good though thing you're doing. It's a celebration. It's good thing, something good. Yes, true.

Kelly: 24:34

It doesn't have to be like a white knuckle thing, and maybe it will be at the beginning, but yeah. It doesn't have to be that way at all. how old are your girls now? Deb? You have teenagers?

Deb: 24:42

I do. 13. One is 13, almost 14, and then a 16 year old. Oh.

Kelly: 24:48

So what's what are the discussions or activities around alcohol in your house?

Deb: 24:53

I actually had my younger daughter on the show, we had a really good conversation it was interesting. She was the one most invested in my journey. Because at the time she was, 9, 10, 8, 9 10, when I was really starting to take breaks and she would see me drinking and then go back to drinking, and then she just was really worried about it and then she became like a little cop. Just watching me or at the store if I would get something, really call me out on it. Wow. And I had to talk to her one day and just say, I know you love me and care for me. This is my thing. I don't want you to worry about me anymore. Oh, this isn't your job. This is my job. And that was really hard. I remember she, oh, I wonder if I have it. She had given me this candle. I'd found the card. I had to see if I have the card, you guys. Oh man. It was so sweet. Oh, she had given me a candle. She had written this. She said, you're an amazing mom. I love you so much. I hope you like the candle. If you make me cry, okay, but you only get it if you don't drink every night. You don't drink. You can light it until the candle's gone. Once it's gone, we'll get you a new candle.

Mike: 26:27

Oh.

Lindsey: 26:29

Oh my God.

Kelly: 26:31

And how old was she when she gave that to you?

Deb: 26:33

She was probably like nine. Oh. 10. So had she seen you intoxicated and Oh yeah. It was interesting when we had our conversation on the show, she said, I didn't know you had a problem or were different until you started taking breaks. And then I started, oh, I saw the difference. The difference, yeah.

Lindsey: 26:55

And what do you think the difference was? What did she say? The difference in you sober you versus drunk you.

Deb: 27:02

Yeah. She said I would either just lay on the couch or yell or laugh and be weird. Or make these terrible concoctions, which is true. Ugh. Yeah, wow. Yeah. I'm glad that we had the conversation. It's important to talk to your kids about it and they're picking up so much more than you realize. Absolutely. Now she's like my biggest cheerleader. You know how on your Netflix profile where you can change your picture? Yes. And your name still here. She changed my picture to Titus on Dramedy from the Unbreakable Kim Schmidt. It was like a, oh yeah. Very flamboyant black man. But then she put next to it, sober mom. Nice. And that's still my profile picture and name, and she's been very sweet and supportive and proud.

Lindsey: 28:07

I remember being around my dad, I would say that my dad, my mom would say that he's an alcoholic or was when I was a kid growing up. But I remember. Just feeling very anxious anytime he came home. You could tell right away he had been drinking. It's not like he ever did anything to any of us kids or anything like that. But I just remember even going to weddings and then getting in the vehicle at the end of the night and he was drunk and he was driving and then just like the vibe and the aura and I would be real I was little and I just. I remember always feeling like really anxious and I wish thinking back on it that I wonder what it would be like if I had a conversation like you did with your daughter about it. How you had her on your podcast, and I wonder what that would be like for me, if I had a conversation with my dad, even at that age, about his drinking, but. Yeah, and you're right. Kids pick up way more than you think they do, I feel like it's, that kind of stuff has impacted me to this day. Where I struggle with anxiety stuff, right?

Deb: 29:24

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. I will say my older daughter though, got to where, So she was probably 13 or 14, and she's always been very into what are other people doing? What are other families doing? And she, I remember was like, why can't you be like other moms? Other moms drink? Like, why don't you drink? Once I gave up drinking, wow. Weird. She just thinks I'm so different now from the other moms that are drinking, but she also really appreciates me being around for her and available just prime teenager.

Kelly: 30:08

A prime teenager. That's troublesome to me because watching these other women drink her thinking, that's cool. She

Deb: 30:15

thinks that something about it that's, yeah. Yeah. And she's already, she's 16 and we've had a few incidents with her drinking and lots of conversations about it and and the health concerns and the safety concerns too. And then legally and. All this stuff, now I'm like, oh God, thank God I'm sober. I'm so glad. Yes. Yes. Now that they're teenagers I'm so glad. Yeah.

Lindsey: 30:40

But what do you say to her? Oh, sorry. No, go ahead. I was just gonna say, when your daughter says, how come you can't be like the other moms who drink? What do you say to her?

Deb: 30:51

I just said it wasn't for me. It was just causing me too much trouble. I felt like shit. It felt like crap, and I choose not to drink and I'm much better off without it now. Love that. Does your husband drink death? He does, but he's not, he's never, he's been one of those people that can take it or leave it, so he doesn't really drink much at all, thankfully.

Tracey: 31:17

It's thankful when you decide not to drink it is helpful.

Deb: 31:21

Oh yeah. I was just thinking that the other day. I'm like, I got really lucky. And he's been very supportive. He would not come on the podcast though.

Kelly: 31:32

Maybe one day he will.

Deb: 31:34

We probably still have things we should be having conversations about, honestly. Yeah.

Tracey: 31:40

Was it a problem in your relationship? Did it ever come up as an issue for him?

Deb: 31:45

I know that he was concerned. I know that one day he came home and I was wasted. He had been out. I had the girls. I was clearly intoxicated. That was one of the days I'd thrown up. I remember that morning he looked at me and he said, I can't even look at you right now. And then he just left and Oh, and that was really just so much shame there and because I couldn't look at myself either. And he said those words out loud and then we went up to our cabin in McCall at the time, his parents' cabin, I don't know how we did this. We didn't talk the whole time. Wow. We just sat there. We had one set of DVDs, Rome, the TV series, Rome. And we just watched that the whole time and I the whole time too, I didn't drink and I was thinking, okay, you can't drink anymore. You cannot do this you have a problem. And that's when I tried to get help. At that time, I started, naltrexone didn't work for me but I was taking longer and longer breaks. Yeah. But again, that was like 2014, 2013. Wow. It still took me years to get to being done. Which I think.

Tracey: 33:06

Do you think he understood that you didn't have the same type of relationship with alcohol that he did? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Percent. Yeah. Yeah. He sure did. And he didn't get it. He he still doesn't get it Now he's you just have the best willpower of anybody I know. He still thinks I'm just going on willpower. Yeah. I got to the point where I'm free and it's not issue I'm not like white knuckling it through everything. Yes. Yeah. But he is very proud and supportive. Was never, he is one of those people that just doesn't talk about it. And like I said, we haven't really talked about it. I don't know if we ever will. Probably we need to, but at the same time, we've moved on, we've been married 21 years, coming up in July, so yeah. So what led you to starting Alcohol Tipping Point then and tell our listeners a little bit about that.

Deb: 34:11

Sure. I started that initially in 2020 actually, part of our department, cause we do wellness had gotten furloughed, so our hours got reduced. So I was like, you know what, I'll just make a website and I wanna compile all the resources that I've gathered, just like a list of other websites, Quizlet, podcasts, whatnot. So I dabbled in that. I was like, oh, this is fun. But part of me also knew being a nurse, being a health coach, and helping people anyway, I just knew okay, once I get, to the other side, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna help people. Because I felt so alone and so I just knew okay, I need to get this message out here, need to get this message about alcohol and its health. I need to get this message that you're not alone, that you can change your drinking. That this is possible. You can do it in other ways. You don't have to go to aa, you don't have to go to inpatient rehab. You have alternatives. So I just wanted to have another way. To help people. And so then the alcohol tipping point, I ended up starting a podcast that was just serendipitous. They happened to have a podcast studio. They were doing it for free in our town. Wow. Then July of 2021 I was like, oh, I should do like a dry July. Cuz by then I was on Instagram and had my podcast and. So then I did my first dry July group, which morphed into the alcohol, and then I just kept doing holidays, just having a place for people to take a break to. Just have time to reevaluate your relationship with alcohol without having to declare that you have a problem or not, or put any labels on it. And within the break and within the contents is a lot of science and compassion based tools and just mindset tools. I do a ton of mindset work. Just ways to change your thinking about drinking and ways to practice not drinking. For a lot of people it's just a habit It's a habit that you can undo and it takes time. And as we all know, and as we've talked about through this show, change is not a straight line. It's not linear. It is a squiggly line. We're all somewhere on that squiggly line and that's okay. That's how we change. So I just wanted to have a safe place with science and compassion for people to change their relationship with drinking. So that's alcohol tipping point.

Tracey: 36:50

I love it.

Kelly: 36:51

Amazing. How do you gather, how do people, do you, are you on Facebook or through Zoom or what, how do you have these groups?

Deb: 36:57

Oh it's online, you sign up for an alcohol and like I said, I run them every month and so then it's online. I use Microsoft Teams for online. Yeah, like it's just like Zoom, so we do. Two meetings a week, but then I have daily content. So every day you're getting something, some kind of exercise or information about alcohol or something about changing your thoughts or self-compassion or mindfulness, or here's what it does to your liver, or just all kinds of things throughout the month so that you have support. It's hosted on a private site platform cuz I can also do one-on-one coaching there and it's HIPAA protected. You guys might not have HIPAA in Canada, but anyway it's private. For people who like to protect their anonymity. So yeah, that's how it works.

Kelly: 37:51

That's awesome. I love it.

Deb: 37:53

Yeah.

Tracey: 37:54

Yeah. I love what you said about mindset and how it can be for a lot of people just a habit. Cuz that's what I felt like it was very habitual. So for me, when I decided to stopped drinking, I actually changed my daily routine. And I found, for me that helped, especially upfront because I had this daily routine of, coming home, starting dinner, pour a glass of wine, and then that turned into, another glass of wine, another glass of wine. Instead of doing that daily, when I decided to quit, I would come home and do a workout right away. Just to break those patterns. So I love that you said that about mindset and helping people with their mindset, because I think that is really important and really key. Yeah. We're just creatures of habit and rituals, like you said, and just we're just on autopilot. We take the same way home every day. We're just like, eh, without even realizing it. So sometimes if you can break the routine like you did, that's awesome. I still remember I had this guy on the podcast, Carlos Navarro and his, one of his number one tips was rearrange your furniture. Wow,

Lindsey: 39:13

love that. Because he was saying like, love, you really want to change. Make things up. You change it up. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a cleansing your environment. You know what's really helpful too, is cleaning out a closet, packing up that old shit and getting, taking stuff to Goodwill or posting things on Facebook marketplace and selling things yeah. I can see how that can be. I don't know, it just kickstarts your, transformation or something, you're doing something productive.

Deb: 39:42

And you have a lot more time on your hands, that's for sure. That is for sure. That is also another reason how I start. After the pandemic. I was working full-time then I was started the alcohol tipping point was doing all this. Because you have so much more time and so much more bandwidth Think about cuz most of my day drinking, I wasn't at a hundred percent. You're waking up, you're just recovering from the night before. You're like at 30, 40% you may get back up to 80% and then it's dinner time and you check out again and you're. Back down. 50%. You're just never really fully using your brain

Tracey: 40:23

Why high functioning is false. That's why you're not high functioning as much as we term it that we are, because, you're still. Making lunches for your kids or going to your job or whatnot, you couldn't have said it better. That's exactly what a day in the life is. Not to mention the brain capacity that it occupies as you think about when you're gonna have a drink and all that stuff. Totally exhausting. Yes. Yeah. And you're right, it frees up your time. But the other great thing about doing the alcohol tipping point or the podcast, and for me when we started the podcast too, it just gives you a focus and something to pour that energy into. That feels meaningful to your whole new purpose.

Deb: 41:15

Yeah. And I think it keeps you tethered. I'm sure it keeps you all tethered to okay, this is why I'm still alcohol free. This is why I'm doing it. Cuz I, I think what happens to a lot of people, the further out they get, sometimes they can romanticize drinking again and they can forget, we have that whole fading effect bias where we tend to forget negative things that happen in our lives and so this just keeps you close to it.

Tracey: 41:44

Definitely keeps you accountable. Yes, too. Yes., there's some of us here that came in to not drinking, not saying we'd never drink again. And I think for the most part, that's changed for the people that had started out that way.

Deb: 42:00

Yeah. That's wonderful. Yeah,

Lindsey: 42:02

I think too, the more you know, the more you learn about the negative effects and what's happening in your brain and body and your gut, it's just oh yeah. That's why I'm not doing this. I can't unknow it. So now, yeah, how do I pour this substance and Drink it now. I just feel like I know too much and I don't know, it's like I can't go back. Absolutely. Yeah. That was, that whole ignorance is bliss. And then you open the door. Yeah. And I think you know. The blanket statement, it's not good for you and I would be like, I would almost be angry at people that were like, I don't drink. And I'm like, oh, okay, so you think you're better than me. They'd piss me off. Even on social media and stuff, I'm just like okay, all right. Have fun. But now I'm like, oh. I'm the one posting about why you shouldn't be drinking. And it's just no. You need to know and you need to know how it feels to not like really give it a chance. Yeah.

Kelly: 43:04

You'd mentioned Annie Grace earlier there, and that was the thing with her. I saw her stuff early on, probably within the first 30 days of quitting and yeah, that's the stuff I couldn't unknow. It gave me that sense of okay, it isn't just me, like you said, Deb, but also the information that she shares is so important for everybody to know. I think about alcohol. Yeah. Its effects.

Deb: 43:27

Yeah. Agreed.

Tracey: 43:29

Thank you so much, Deb. We have found this community to be amazing and so supportive and I'm sure you're finding that as well. I love that you were able to connect with us online and come on and share your story and share what you're doing in the community. We love all these people that are dedicating so much energy into bringing awareness. It's pretty awesome. Yes. Thanks for joining the fight with us. And yeah.

Deb: 43:56

Thank you. I love that you guys are all doing this together too. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.

Kelly: 44:03

Thanks for all the work you're doing, Deb. It's amazing.

Deb: 44:06

You're so welcome. Yeah. I should mention, I have free guides, I have free mock tell recipes. I have a free 10 day break as well, and that's all on my website. alcoholtippingpoint.com.

Tracey: 44:19

Okay, perfect. I was just gonna say, tell everybody where they can find you. Yes. So that's your website and you're on Instagram. Instagram's at Alcohol Tipping Point, and then the podcast is Alcohol Tipping Point. Love it. I love that name too. It makes me think of the country song. Do you know that song? Yes. It's not related, is it? Let's hear it. You're gonna have to look it up now after we get off here.

Kelly: 44:48

What's it called? It's called Tipping Point. Tipping Point. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Is it about alcohol? I don't know. Thank you. That's usually I just, I have country chorus, a country song. I have that tip. Tip tipping point. Yeah, it's, thank you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Lindsey: 45:05

I have that in my head, but I'm like, is it about alcohol? Remember we used to talk about that, all these subliminal alcohol messages and songs and stuff that I'm like, is it about alcohol?

Tracey: 45:16

Yeah. That I can't confirm or deny. But I can tell you is I'm thankful Lindsay sang it because I wasn't going to cuz my singing voice. You do not wanna hear. But yes that's what the chorus is. So that's what I think of every time you have said that.

Deb: 45:33

Oh, I'll have to check it out. I actually got it from the Malcolm Gladwell book, the Tipping Point. Oh, okay. And he talks about, everything has its tipping point where it takes more than it gives. That's alcohol was with me. Oh gosh. I just reached the tipping point where it was taking more than it was giving. Oh wow. But the tipping point can go the other way. And that's how we change our drinking, is we start to have more alcohol free days than drinking days, and we start to tip towards the side of sobriety. And where that becomes better for us. And living an alcohol-free life as an badass. Yes. Yeah.

Lindsey: 46:13

Love it. That just hit home. It takes more than it gives. I was like, holy crap. Whoa.

Deb: 46:20

Yeah, definitely.

Tracey: 46:22

That's awesome. Good note to end on and yeah, I love it. Alcohol Tipping Point. Thank you again for joining us and to all our listeners, thank you for listening. You can find us on Instagram at LAF Life Podcast and in our Facebook community at LAF Life. And until next time, keep laughing.

Kelly: 46:42

Bye everybody. Bye bye Deb thanks. Bye. Thank you so much.

Deb: 46:47

Thank you know, support you. Nice meeting you.

Kelly: 46:54

Thank you for listening. Please give us a five star rating like and subscribe, share on social media and tell your friends. We love getting your feedback and ideas of what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes of the laugh life podcast. If you yourself are living alcohol free and want to share your story here, please reach out.