Season 3, Ep. 2 Eva Angvert, BEAMLiFE International

In this episode we had a truly enlightening conversation with Eva Angvert from BEAMLiFE International. After a very traumatic childhood, Eva had her own struggles with addition, In support of her husbands sobriety, she gave up alcohol over 30 years ago and has been sober ever since. In 1995 she started her own coaching business to help other with unresolved trauma and addiction. Eva is trained as a Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, (SEP) as well as a Certified Emotional Resolution practitioner (EmRes) . Through individual coaching sessions she helps people identify their triggers and recognize the sensations in their body as a way of resolving emotional triggers from old trauma. We found Eva's personal story and coaching practices fascinating!

To find out more about Eva and the services she offers visit her website at
https://www.evaangvert.com/
Follow Eva on Instagram @somaticangvert

CHECK OUT this episodes Resources:
The Body Keeps The Score, Bessel van der Kolk
Waking the Tiger: Healing Trauma by Peter A Levine, PhD
In an Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Restores Goodness
Peter A Levine, PhD — Ergos Institute, inc™ (somaticexperiencing.com)
Emotional Resolution is developed by Cedric Bertolli
What is Emotional Resolution? — Emotional Resolution with Cedric Bertelli

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**Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this episode are not professional or medical opinions. If you are struggling with an addiction please contact a medical professional for help.

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Transcript

Kelly: 0:02

welcome to the LAF life podcast, a lifestyle podcast based on living alcohol free and a booze soaked world. My name is Kelly Evans and together with my friends, Tracey Djordjevic, and Lindsay Harik. We share uncensored. Unscripted real conversations about what our lives have been like since we ditched alcohol and how we got here by sharing our individual stories. We'll show you that there isn't just one way to do this, no matter where you are on your journey from sober, curious to years in recovery and everyone in between, you are welcome here, no judgment and a ton of support.

Tracey: 0:42

Hello, everyone, welcome to season three of the LAF Life podcast. Tonight, we have our first guest of the season, Ava. Ava has been sober for over 30 years, and she has a coaching business called Beam Life International that focuses on helping people who are struggling with addiction and healing trauma. We are very excited to have Ava here and hear her personal story and journey to sobriety, as well as to hear about how she helps her clients and the services she's offering to help people in the recovery community. Welcome Ava.

Eva: 1:18

Oh gosh, thank you. Thank you for having me. It's just so exciting to be part of this.

Tracey: 1:24

No, thank you for reaching out. We're so excited to have you. If you want to just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, you had your own personal journey to sobriety. So maybe tell them a little bit about how your relationship with alcohol started and how it progressed and then brought you to where you are today, running a coaching business.

Eva: 1:45

I'm 65. I'm born in 58 in Sweden.

Lindsey: 1:49

Okay, wait a minute. You don't look 65. I don't know what that's supposed to look like, but wow.

Tracey: 1:54

You look amazing. I just love you. Good for you. I just had early, childhood abuse, blah, blah, blah, sexual abuse. That kind of sets you off. Like the branch breaks and then you grow, a different direction. Yeah. Yeah. I think my first addiction was ice cream. I vividly remember not being able to wait for the ice cream and then eat, of course, a whole pack. And what I have learned, it's just to numb the pain, if your boundaries have been broken. You've been treated or mistreated. For me, it was like a buzz inside. I was just uncomfortable, tense, stressed, nervous, paranoid. I always had a radar out. What am I doing wrong? I grew up in a place where I would call it neglect more than anything else. I was basically on my own since I was 10, 11 years old and just running around 14 boyfriend that was 23, whatever. I, where's mom. So those are like stories. And I started drinking at 13. And I vividly remember a bottle of red wine, a friend of mine just brought it. And I so remember just having that one slurp and, oh, you know that I didn't even know that there was a it didn't happen with the ice cream, but it did happen with the alcohol. My attention just shifted. After I was raped, I just basically my grades went down. I was drunk from Friday to Saturday and that was basically my life. Not necessarily thinking that something was wrong. I moved out at 16 and moved to an island where I could drink as much as I wanted. Then just boyfriends and abusive relationships. I don't think I ever picked boyfriend. They picked me. I was I don't know if you relate, but I had no value. I had no decision making skills or any that's what I want. It's more, oh, you want me? Oh, okay, it's just, it's know, it is this kind of weird. I don't know what's going on. And I think it's comes, PTS is pretty common with that. Then also having been whatever abuse or have trauma, it's difficult to know what's going on or to know what to do about it. It sounds like you didn't have a lot of structure growing up or anybody teaching you those values right? If you're pretty much on your own, you probably didn't have those core values to even know, you were raising yourself, really, it sounds

Eva: 4:31

yeah, we were taught, in Sweden you raise the children with shame, you just shame them into they're worth nothing and then you just have to look at them with that look of disapproval and you just shrivel, it's amazing. My mom can still sigh on the phone and I still feel it, just that kind of, oh, I was expecting more of you.

Tracey: 4:54

I think that's fairly common. In European culture, to be honest with you. My dad came from a European background and he was an alcoholic as well. And there was a lot of abuse in his family. And definitely, I feel like that was the standard.

Eva: 5:09

You're basically a disappointment. And coming from that platform is not much you can do to get more value, so I roamed around and I came over to America. It's a long story. So I ended up as an out there in America, 25 and then long story. I ended up in San Francisco and ran on the streets of San Francisco for a while. I married a man. I was 26. I married a man that was. 49, because he told me to, there comes that value again, or lack of and he was just an outlaw. So I learned I didn't really know what was going on. There was a lot of whatever pitfalls and drugs and guns and stuff around me. And I don't know if I even realized the danger I was in and then eventually I ended up getting an apartment with a roommate in 88. And that's what I started to stabilize. I can only work as a bartender, often drank more than they did. And, my clients. Eventually, I ended up having a roommate and our next door neighbor was this weird, bald guy crawled up the stairs 1 day. And we thought, oh, my gosh, that's our neighbor. And then when he came out with three shot glasses and a bottle of tequila, we thought that's our neighbor. So it's those kind of values. And a year and a half later, we were best friends and we got married. So I married Bob next door, this awesome, solid rock that just accepted me the way I was. It was amazing to be around a man that totally respected you. Didn't try anything. He was just a friend. I think it was the first person in my life. I can remember that would just treat me with respect. It was an amazing feeling, but we both were drinkers. I had a 5th of vodka. He had a 5th of scotch and we watched football. We were heavy drinkers and in 89. He had a heart condition. He had developed the heart condition, so he needed to stop drinking and I was going to be this loyal wife. I'm not really an alcoholic. He is, I'm just a good wife. We stopped in January 15th, 1990. That's our sobriety date and, from there on, I had 10 months of sobriety when we had Christina. Christina was born with a heart condition, not related. We had to turn off her life support 2 months later. Oh my. So that was my taste of sobriety. After all abuse and whatever kind of lifestyle I've had up to 32, you sober up and then 10 months later your daughter dies.

Lindsey: 7:45

Tragedy. So I kinda lived on an earthquake, I had no idea how to live life.

Tracey: 7:50

Sounds like you were just living in survival mode

Eva: 7:54

yeah, it's like the pinball, you touch into things and ouch and it's amazing because I had two more children. That both had apnea, so they stopped the breathing. So they kept you on your toes for a while. So the first 5 years of sobriety was absolute survival. And since I lost 1 child, I was going to make sure I wasn't going to lose another 1. So I became 1 of these helicopter moms that was absolutely neurotic. Manic depressive swinging back and forth and having no idea how to raise children. And that's basically the first 10 years of my sobriety. I looked at other people and says, how did I do in the sandbox talking to people? It was amazing looking back that my kids are they're not on drugs. They don't smoke. They're wow. Considering I don't think I was abusive to the point. I wasn't hitting them or anything, but I was screaming. I was reactive. They never knew when I was going to fly off. So living ammends is a good idea. Then we just go on living. That's the thing, people say, Oh, 33 years of sobriety. Wow. You know what? You wake up, you don't drink, you go to sleep. You wake up, you don't drink, you go to sleep. seriously, it isn't really that big of a deal. The length of sobriety. I think the big deal is what kind of human have you become, your behavior. Have you changed? Because I met enough people with 30,40 years of sobriety and I want nothing to do with them. What I have learned, you can flag off and memorize the big book and have all these spiritual, wonderful words and do all that stuff. But who are you when no one's watching?

Lindsey: 9:37

That's integrity. I think so. It's important to me to see that and my husband was, military, very strong rock, never budge. And even if I don't agree with him, I was so envious of the rock. He was standing on. He truly had confidence and he knew what he was thinking and wouldn't back down and I was all over the place and kite with no rudder. And then when I would finally land the crash somewhere. He could just scrape me up and take me home, and he was just non emotional that way. So he passed last year. Oh my. Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, that's, thank you. But it really shows one thing that I tell every woman to keep track of the money. He wasn't hiding anything. It's just that I didn't necessarily care. I had no idea how to take care of money. I've had a business for 30 years, the month my client sent money into one account, he took care of it. And I didn't even know how much I was making. Couldn't care less. I would do it for free. Had we not had a mortgage, because I just loved, doing sessions, all that other stuff wasn't interesting. So women it's called learned helplessness. Absolutely, and it is. shocking when you wake up and you realize that you don't know anything. So I'm hoping that anybody else, I tell it to a lot of women and many of them say, Oh yeah, my husband takes care of everything. Yeah. Wake up, honey. Yeah. need to know what's going on,

Tracey: 11:16

yeah, it's probably something really important to point out to women. I'm sure there's lots out there that maybe need that sort of advice.

Eva: 11:25

You get emotionally, it's a weird, 33 years together with someone. You become the same way they are, you stop asking questions or you just say I'm busy with the kids. You have kind of rational thoughts about why you don't sit down and talk about it. It's not like his fault, right? He was the man in the house. And so it's a weird, silent agreement in the end. True. Yeah.

Lindsey: 11:55

Did you ever have any relapses in that time where you had your sober date and then the tragedy of losing your child and everything? Were there any points in time where, you thought I just can't deal and started to drink or use the substance again?

Eva: 12:13

It was many times like that. I had daily panic attack when I had the other 2 children. I was so afraid of them dying. I used to crawl up on the floor with a paddle in my mouth and scream because I didn't know what to do. I had this pressure in my chest. My throat was closing. My head was exploding. I didn't know about somatics. I didn't know about panic attacks. I didn't drink because when Christina died if I drink now, I would just disappoint her, about disappointment, right? We Swede, we can't disappoint anybody. It was that's what kept me sober for a while. It was just like talking to her and just crawl up on the floor and scream until things, pass by.

Tracey: 12:56

So you did stay sober through her passing. Okay. That's pretty amazing. If you were going to fall off, that would probably have been one of the times I'm sure

Eva: 13:07

it would have been a good excuse.

Tracey: 13:09

Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing, right? We all come across things in life that could be a good excuse. That's why we have to keep working towards, building our inner strength so that we can get through those times without the alcohol.

Eva: 13:24

Yeah, most of the time it isn't. If you've been sober for, let's say, a year, if you pick up again, in my opinion, this is only my experience, if you pick up again, that's a choice. Yes. People say my disease took me out. What does that mean? No, you went to the store and bought a drink or whatever, and it comes off judgmental, but it's this whole idea of there is some kind of ownership and responsibility.

Lindsey: 13:51

Accountability. Yeah. You need some personal accountability for the decisions that you're making. If your life is a mess and you're using substances to numb out, you gotta take a look around and you're the common denominator, right? The traumas that you experience they're not your fault, but it is your responsibility to heal and do the work to try to come out the other side, right?

Eva: 14:12

Oh, yeah. And it was tempting, when my husband passed that, would have been another good excuse. Absolutely. But there wasn't really any physical craving for the alcohol per se. It was more, I don't want to wake up tomorrow. Yeah.

Lindsey: 14:27

You want to just numb out. Yeah. I just want to feel anything. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think a lot of people use alcohol to manage anxiety on their own?

Eva: 14:36

What I think is that any kind of addictive behavior is just to manage pain. Yes, discomfort in the body. If that's a little on a 1 or if it's a flat, big 10. Dependent on our past, I think, and Gabor Mate, I don't know if you're familiar with, that's what he talks about, it's our pain and if we choose alcohol because there is alcohol in the house, or if we choose sex or whatever it is, what is the main reason? It's to get out of this, yeah. Yeah.

Lindsey: 15:09

I was gonna say it's almost like we have to find a way to do that, get out of this, without The use of a substance to numb us out.

Eva: 15:18

And I had a client once that, she popped Xanax or whatever. I don't, I'm not familiar with all the medications. But she started and then she pops a Xanax. I said, why don't you call me right before you do it? Just when you start feeling that's the only thing that can help you call me. And if I'm available, I'll show you something. So she calls, one o'clock at night one day or something, and I gave her totally 24 hours just so we can catch the moment. Wow. And I tell you, she went through the whole anxiety attack and landed on the other side. Without Xanax. So this is what I'm learning. The anxiety attack, the fear of the anxiety brings on the anxiety attack. If you have never taken one wave, it's like body surfing. If you have never allowed one wave of this discomfort to come up, you don't know that you can't. That's right.

Kelly: 16:15

And you don't know that it passes either. That's right. Yeah.

Eva: 16:20

After she went through it, hey, I'd rather sit down and have coffee with you than go through an anxiety attack. But if I have to, if I know this was all, oh, it'll take 10 minutes and then it's over. She stopped taking it. This is not like it's going to happen to everybody, but she did. Because she didn't know that it would end on itself. Wow. Because we're taught this. I feel like in society we're taught to, numb it instead of feel it.

Lindsey: 16:46

Not go through it. Yeah. Yeah.

Tracey: 16:48

We're not taught to deal with things. We're not taught how to deal with things you're right. There's just too many other ways we can not deal with them., a lot of people are making money off those ways. So why not encourage that instead of encouraging people to heal themselves.

Kelly: 17:04

Yeah, it's like a lack of trust in ourselves to be able to get through these emotions. Yeah, taking something, that's a physical thing that she's actually taking from the outside and putting in her body, whereas you taught her to trust her body to get through it and feel it.

Lindsey: 17:20

I know that desperation though too, I've dealt with anxiety since I was 12 years old. I was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance at 12 with my first panic attack, didn't know what the hell was going on and neither did my parents. And ever since then, it's been an issue. So I know that desperation and I was always told it's in your head you have to stop this, you're like, it's in your head, but I wasn't actually given any tools to navigate. And I didn't understand and I was never told, or it was never talked about why it's happening, and I was never involved in any conversations about how to do damage control, before it happens, meditation, going for walks, drinking water, making sure you're eating properly. Because I think if you can incorporate things like that into your life before it becomes a huge issue, I'm not sure what even triggered my panic attack. I have a few guesses, but I don't know. It just felt like my whole body did something completely 360 on its own. I wasn't in control. I thought I was going to die. At 12, and I didn't even understand what was happening, and that was the scariest experience I've probably ever had, it's almost like we need to learn this at a young age, how to actually take care of ourselves, how to go through emotion, how to let uncomfortable things happen. And pass, but also, I think there's a time and a place to for medications and things to help us, but you can't rely on those things either. It's kind of a balance.

Eva: 18:49

I remember storming into my psychologist's office. I think I had five years or something. I had picked up my three year old in anger, picked her up and spur back. And I had this vision that her neck broke and I freaked out running into the office the next day and saying, why haven't you given me whatever Prozac or whatever it was popular at that time. Yeah, I have some Prozac. Why don't you get, and just screaming because I think I'm going to kill my children, absolutely out of control. And she says, if I give you medication. I give you an umbrella. You won't feel the rain, but you won't feel the sun either. Oh my god. And I was like, okay, so when I close my umbrella, I still haven't figured out how to deal with the weather. And she just smiled and said, you can't I had to make a commitment at that 5 years of sobriety that I have to figure out how to deal with my weather.

Lindsey: 19:49

Oh, my gosh. The way you worded that is just my brain. I'm like, wow, it makes a lot of sense.

Eva: 19:55

If you numb it, if you think about a pressure cooker, when the lid's on and we have all these valves, like we drink or we smoke or we whatever it is, we rage or we haven't, that's just managing. That's just we're letting out the pressure for the moment, but the heat's still on. That's it

Tracey: 20:13

never goes away number goes away. You're not resolving anything.

Eva: 20:18

With somatic awareness and that kind of whatever the process I do, then you turn down the heat and when you turn down the heat, eventually. It's going to be so little pressure that you can take the lid off, there will always be bubbles because the blood. We're alive. There will always be bubbles, but nothing like when the heats up on 10.

Tracey: 20:40

That's a really good analogy. I wanted to ask you about that. That was 1 of my questions. Eva. What is somatic experiencing because you have that. You're certified in that on your website as part of your business, and it's not an expression I've ever heard. I don't know if our listeners know about it either. So if you could explain that would be great. Dr. Peter Levine founded somatic experiencing, honestly, I don't even far over 20, 25 years ago. It has to do with the felt sense that come from Dr. Gedlin and his whole foundation of focusing. It's another way where we learn how to go internally and recognize the physical sensations we have in the body. Wow. When you say, Lindsay, that it starts in the head, I would argue it starts in the body. Yeah. Because the body gets an uncomfortable tweak, and within a nanosecond, the message goes via the vagus nerve up to the brain and tells the brain, threat, and then we start spinning. Where is the threat? And we land on something. And then suddenly it's his fault why I'm feeling like this. It's something outside of us because we automatically go outside. So somatic experience, he developed into a body awareness way of resolving the triggers from trauma. The pains, because if you read Bessel van der Kolk's book the body keeps the I think that's the name of

Kelly: 22:12

the body score. There's no, the body keeps. Yeah. So then the body remembers everything. That's wow. Yeah. let's say if you're 2 years old and a dog attacks you, right? And then you're 5, 6 and. It's just uncomfortable around dogs. Your mom is saying, what's wrong with you? It's just a little, you just have this, you're 20. You're not going to parties that have dogs but now then you're 30 and you start getting tired of it. You go to the therapist and you want to figure out, I don't know why I'm afraid of dogs. I can't remember ever being bit because it's pre verbal. That's right. You can sit in therapy for 20 years. You will not get to when the dog bit you because it's pre verbal, number one, and you may not even have any memories, but the body knows, the body remembers the attack. So if you can leave your brain and just pay attention to how your body feels. Last time you saw a dog, you. And then you cross the street. Let's go there and see what happened with you right there. You never have to go back to the initial trauma. You don't even have to really necessarily understand the initial trauma.

Lindsey: 23:31

That's a really good point because I think a lot of people are afraid to do that, especially with traumas that they can remember abuse and stuff. They don't want to go back to that. We don't have to. We can let the body tell the story, and I know how weird that sounds and I don't know if I'm actually explaining somatic experiencing the correct way. These are PhDs that have done this for 20 years and I'm sitting here with layman terms, but it is a fantastic way to allow the body to just take a little. It's instead of they throw the soldiers now, throw them in the hot tub and burn. You get used to it, right? No, stick your toe in, take a scoop out and enjoy it. Ah, and then feel good again and then take another scoop out. By the time the hot tub is half full, it's lukewarm and then you can get in and you don't have to re expose and all these kind of stuff. They do. It's yeah, gentle. I love that. And we should link that book in our show notes for listeners, the body keeps score because that would be a really awesome tool. I think one book is really The Unspoken Voice with Dr. Peter Levine. Oh, I've not read that one. In an Unspoken Voice. Okay. He's the founder of SE, so to mention that I also took Emre's Emotional Resolution that also work. It's a similar, I don't want to say technique. It's a similar way that we teach skills to people. So that, they can learn how to resolve their own kind of triggers. Thanks for bringing that up and starting to explain that because I saw that as well. That you had a certification in that as a practitioner. So I was curious. It sounded more literal, but I still was curious what it meant.

Eva: 25:23

Emotional resolution is developed by Cedric Bertolli. He's a French man who is working with two, three doctors in France, and he developed this. This is another way of teaching a skill. Technique sounds not right. Because every human being can actually do this. It's almost like we get conditioned out of it. Yes. So that's what Emirates is about is to teach people how to recognize their body sensations and then how to have the awareness to just allow the sensations to move. They will always pass Always. It's like body surfing. little scary. The beginning, and when you start learning it, that's all it is.

Tracey: 26:08

Did you do this type of practice or therapy yourself before you got involved in it, Eva, for some of your trauma?

Eva: 26:15

So I was an absolute insane crazy person for my first 16 years of sobriety. Raging, flying off the wall, screaming. Being reactive and then I read the book. Awaken the tiger. It's the first book of se and instead of saying that you're a trauma victim, he talks about trauma survivors and I just lost it and thought, wow, there I am. So I just had to take the training. By then I was a coach and I was a life coach and I was a good coach and then I would go home and scream at my kids. Because I didn't have the body awareness. So it's a three year training and it saved my marriage. It saved my relationship with my children. Wow. I suddenly became aware of my body.

Tracey: 27:04

It sounds like you were always searching to heal yourself. You seem very aware of what you were struggling with, but maybe not finding the ways to deal with it. It looks like that through that journey, you finally did stumble upon the things that helped you.

Eva: 27:21

Yeah, and coming from, remember, no value, being a disappointment, all that kind of platform I grew up on. It's one of these desperate ways of trying to become better. To become good enough like a good enough wife or a good enough mother or so. I don't know if it is in a selfish way. I need to heal and feel good about myself. I just need to become a better mom, one of those. It's sad to say it like that, but it took a long time, like they say, when you finally earned a chair in AA, when you're finally there for you, you're not there for your kids, or you're not there for your husband or anything, you're there because you deserve to stay sober. That took me a long time. Yeah, so 18 years of sobriety, I was done with somatic experiencing, and it felt like I came up for air, like I'd just been living underwater, and suddenly, it's a whole world out there when you're not preoccupied and self centered with how you constantly feel when you have PTSD. When you're running on survival, you look at the world through a toilet roll. The focus is so on what's wrong that you can't see the beauty.

Lindsey: 28:34

And I think when you focus on what's wrong, that's what you get. You get more of the wrong things and the now more is going wrong and now this is wrong and everything is shit. Yeah,

Tracey: 28:47

it's interesting what you were saying about how you were constantly losing it and reactive and blowing up because most of the people I know that have had kind of childhood trauma and didn't really have, any kind of structure growing up. I say they never mature emotionally outside of a child's emotions, like they have no emotional maturity. So the way they react to everything is like a child, like they're still reacting like they're in a 10 year old's. Mindset,

Eva: 29:16

I remember saying to my psychologist. I have heard that when you start drinking, you stop growing emotionally. So I think I'm about 13. I was 32 at the time 13. she looked at me and said, how about 8? Oh, offended. I was molested at eight. So it makes sense.

Lindsey: 29:37

Yes.

Eva: 29:38

It makes total sense. Wow. What you're saying about, storing stuff in the body, there's the whole mind body connection, right? But there's also that whole energetic connection. So it makes sense to me. Exactly what you were saying. I find it fascinating that, yeah, you wouldn't remember something that happened to you when you're two. I don't know what your guy's earliest memory is, but probably not at two. But you're right. Your body was present. So it's not shocking that it would remember. It's very interesting. People can have trauma in utero or a really tough birth. And it sets you up for a blueprint of. a total different life than if you did not have that trauma.

Tracey: 30:23

I think it's part of that. What's even more interesting is exactly what you're saying, Eva, that you can heal it without having to go back to that. If you want to maybe speak a little bit to that, how you would work with someone or some of the techniques you use that would be involved in that if you were just trying to get someone to be more aware, maybe of what their body was telling them.

Eva: 30:46

Sure. Do we have a volunteer? Oh, I like this. Kelly, you're going to do it or here we go. So just something light. But if you just sit here right now, just notice what happened with you when you were called out. What are you noticing in your body right now?

Kelly: 31:02

I was just looking at Lindsay thinking that she was going to do it and I got a little bit tense thinking it might be me. Yeah. Yeah. So notice that you notice you got a little tense. So you're aware of that tension. Yes. if you think about an overwhelming memory or something that happened a week or two ago, not too harsh, just think about something a week or two ago, just something that pops up. Okay. What you called this about Kel? Yes. Yeah, that's what I just thought of. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You don't have to share it, but more that you share the more we can do. Okay, so you're thinking about it now? Yes. So then think about it in the shape as it's happening right now. Again, you're in it like I am, like I'm walking through the door, whatever is happening. Just as if it, yeah. Okay. Just please close your eyes. And right now, what are you noticing in your body? My breathing is changing.

Eva: 32:02

What else?

Kelly: 32:03

I can visualize what I was doing at the time. And try to drop the vision and everything and just right into your body what's happening in your chest, your stomach, your throat, just notice your body sensations and do nothing. Just notice what's happening. My breath is slowing and I'm feeling more calm. Oh, okay. You can open your eyes and just

Eva: 32:32

So how was that? Did you notice any kind of shift or anything that happened when you actually paid attention to what was going on? Once you had me drop the visual and more into my body. Then I was able to only focus on my breath because I wasn't visualizing that other thing. This is just a taste of it. The thing is, when you have had serious trauma, there's no reason to go back and get re traumatized. But things happens in life that's triggering us because of that trauma. Yes. So if we just go back last week, this happened and I got so scared or whatever, I got angry whatever reactive behavior we had, if we go back to that behavior, like you did, in a sense that you go back to something that happened that was uncomfortable. Then there is just different degrees on how much of sensations we want to feel. So we go in, and we feel a little bit, and then it changes. Like you notice, you give it your attention, and then it changes. So it's Michelangelo and the Statue of David? Yes. So they ask Michelangelo, how could you create such a masterpiece? And he says, I didn't create David. God created David. I just removed what was not David. If we have overwhelming situations and traumatic situations from childhood and all the way up, every time something overwhelming happened, Dr. Peter Levine says, we freeze. It's like a, it's like a frostbite. And then we have more and more frostbites. So we walk around like this huge ice block with a little piece of us left inside just to be safe. And instead of going at this ice block with an ice pick or a blowtorch and try to figure out what's wrong with us, we use compassion, we pay attention. Every time we pay attention and give space for the body to express itself, it melts. And eventually this ice melts away so that we can come out, the true you, not the one we're trying to be to survive. Does that make sense?

Kelly: 34:45

Yes. Yeah, I love that. I'd actually written down part of that quote on a piece of paper here from your website. Yeah, I wrote down we slowly turn into emotional ice blocks attempting to protect ourself by staying numb and safe inside. And there are layers and layers between us and the world, right? No, because of fear and pain, like Dr. Gabor says. So that's what you did. Now. You just melted a little piece of that ice just by giving attention. Yeah. And I noticed that you didn't guide me through that. You said, just notice. It's very empowering to show people that they can do this. It's in their body. They have the power to heal their own body. Absolutely. The thing is, my goal is that you will no longer need my services. If I'm doing what I do, you shouldn't need me. And that's the thing. When you do this, Kelly, a couple of more times, you will start feeling more and more confident in the process every time you do it. And then it's oh, I can do this. I can go a little deeper. It's always good to have someone with you, you just notice the shift to them. That's really awesome.

Lindsey: 35:59

Would you apply that? I was just thinking when you were guiding Kelly through that, I was thinking I had a situation at work happened this week and I had a very uncomfortable conversation with a boss. And I stood my ground, but when the conversation was happening, anxiety, I feel like I'm not good at those conversations. I want to be better, but it's like the arms right away, start getting hot and tingly. And then I can feel the heat rising up. And my face getting red, and I'm breathing, and I start shaking, and I'm thinking, as I'm responding, can that person see all of this physical stuff happening? And then I'm like, stop worrying about that, and start deep breathing, but also I want to get my point across and stand my ground in a way that it's no, you can't take your bad attitude out on me, and walk all over me, so doing these somatic exercises, can that help people navigate future scenarios where they're in uncomfortable or traumatic situations?

Eva: 37:02

You can even go back there right now, just like Kelly did. Yeah.

Lindsey: 37:07

And is that what you would suggest?

Eva: 37:08

Yeah. Yeah. And if you do right now, you just rewind all the way back and you just look at your boss. And you're in the moment as if it was happening, and if you do that right now, and then you would close your eyes, that thing would come back up. And then you resolve it. See, that's the ice. It doesn't come back. It's part of turning down the heat on the stove, when we manage, when you have to, I have to breathe, I need to control my, all the thinking, can he see? All that stuff is managing and it's just exhausting and it takes everything out of us. Yes. When you finally resolve that trigger, which is probably from far back then. When you resolve that, it doesn't happen again. You can be uncomfortable. It's not like you're just going to stand there and not care, but you will be stable and you will not have all this going on.

Lindsey: 38:02

And it's okay to be uncomfortable. Yeah.

Kelly: 38:04

Is it because these exercises, is that what you call them? Exercises? Not really. It practices, is it because it's bringing so much body awareness. So then the next time Lindsay's in that situation with her boss, she's done the melting so that she and she's more aware of that. How. Okay.

Eva: 38:26

And it's not that big of a trigger. Boing, it's just a couple left because the big blow has subsided. It has melted away. So now with next time, maybe she gets into it with her boss. Number one, she knows it's nothing to be scared of. She's done it before. You can feel your feet. You can getting ready for him, and then just exhale. I wouldn't try to breathe or hold my breath or do anything, just surrender internally, not to the situation, not to a person. It's never the situation that's the problem. The situation is a trigger for a sensation internally that we have not resolved, right? Oh my gosh. Does that make sense? Wow. Yes. So this is a really good thing to do. Somebody feels like having a drink. I was just gonna say. Getting really aware of how, yeah, that feeling, that sensation. What do you think I would've done after this situation at work four years ago. On the way home. On the way home, I would've grabbed two bottles of wine and gone home and been like, screw all this. Yeah. And drank. Yeah. Same. Same. Same. Yeah. But that makes sense though, doesn't it? Because that's all you knew at that time.

Kelly: 39:40

Yeah. Because we don't want to, what we were saying at the beginning, we don't want to feel that feeling because that felt so uncomfortable. We don't want to feel, we don't realize it just takes a few moments to melt that stuff.

Lindsey: 39:54

Yeah. You know what it is too, for me is what I'm realizing in this conversation is. I start to feel those anxious, arm warm, tingly anger bubbling up inside shaking because I'm afraid to speak my mind and stand my ground because I don't want to make other people angry. And then I don't want them to look at me in a bad light. Wow I almost feel that I'm doing something wrong by doing that. So it's like recognizing that because after that whole thing happened, an older version of me in the past would have been in my office crying in tears after that. Whereas I just took a deep breath, held my head high and everybody was standing outside my office door cause it was a whole show for everybody. And I was like, Hey guys, what's up? I'm just going to go over here. And I just continued my day like, no, I am confident in who I am. I have value I deserve to be treated with respect and if someone's going to be treating me poorly, that's not gonna go well. You can't get away with that.

Eva: 40:57

That's awesome.

Lindsey: 40:58

Even they're confident after even though I was shaken, but I was like, no, I didn't cry. I didn't drink. I didn't feel like escaping it. I just calmed right down after and just felt, I just felt good for you. Linds you were respectful. You stood up for yourself. You spoke cause oftentimes. When things like that happen and confrontations happen, there are things that you're thinking in your brain and in your mind that you want to say and you never do. But I said it, not in disrespect, but just it's your lack of communication that caused this, right? Yeah, I just felt pretty good after.

Eva: 41:32

Awesome. You go girl. That's what we want everybody to be, just that whole idea, because we're pretty conditioned just being women. Most of the women I have, we're conditioned to not get angry, to not make a fuss. All that stuff. And dependent on our mothers or our raised, it's a lot of that is there also. Yeah, and then if you have alcohol, I cannot see. Yes, I know men have had a hard time. That's fine. But, if you're a woman and you have been drinking, you have trauma. Yeah, you've been through some stuff that I don't think too many men are going through. Not to say men or women, but I think there is a huge difference when it comes to trauma and waking up with someone you don't know the name or wherever we go and just things being raped drunk. You don't even remember it happened.

Kelly: 42:24

I think there's a, that's a secret that a lot of men carry. And I think that's why a lot of them drink too.

Eva: 42:32

Oh, I can totally hear that. Yeah. I thought there were more women. I don't have the statistics on it.

Kelly: 42:39

Yeah. Unfortunately,

Tracey: 42:40

I think you're just speaking to the vulnerability factor because I touched on that even in our last episode because I have a daughter it doesn't matter how far women have come. There's still a vulnerability factor that exists for us that doesn't for men. And regardless of how strong we become. Emotionally, mentally, physically, we're never going to be a match and that's where there's always going to be a downfall and that vulnerability or sense of vulnerability, that's just my opinion,

Eva: 43:15

no, I agree with you. And I think it's also the rapists, the abusers and so on. They feel the prey, right? So if we can teach our girls. To stand up for themselves and feel their power and empower themselves, they give off the energy or don't mess with me. Yes. And often abusers don't really want to bother with people that are not just giving in and so they're looking for crime victims. That doesn't take that much trouble.

Tracey: 43:45

True. Very true.

Eva: 43:46

It's wonderful. I have a couple of young girls. I have one now. She's 13. Sweetest thing. And the first time they feel that nice warmth inside of, Oh, that's me. It's like a drug for me. I love it because, yes, girl, there you are,

Tracey: 44:04

yeah, we were talking about on the last episode, just in general, instilling that confidence, right? Confidence in kids in general to say no to things like alcohol or drugs. With confidence. And confidence in being able to deal with things, deal with their emotions, the things that we weren't taught so that they don't turn to something like alcohol or drugs to numb them instead.

Kelly: 44:30

Yeah, and confident being themselves. That was a big thing for me. I didn't feel I was shoved into a little box of you need to be this way and this way and that wasn't me. So yeah, I love seeing some of the younger ones coming up that are just so free to be themselves. Yeah, I was thinking what you said earlier Linds about how anxiety and panic attacks were told it's in your head, which is what I always believed to like I always believed I had the power to control it within my mind. Now I know that it's not in our minds where we have to control it. It's in our bodies. So thanks so much for teaching us that, Eva, because I think that is going to make a big difference for all of us because we've all experienced anxiety. I know for me, my anxiety was at like an all time high when I was drinking, so that was a huge motivation for me to stop drinking. Because of the way I woke up every day, feeling that, like you said, buzzing vibration of anxiety in my body that really, I believe, Alcohol was a big contributor to that because I've been fortunate enough since I stopped drinking not to feel that way, but it is not a nice way to feel within your own body. That's why a lot of people, do drink, like Kelly had alluded to, to get rid of that feeling, that uncomfortableness in their body.

Eva: 46:00

And just to think, if you're uncomfortable, if you can just stop and look at your environment and ask yourself, do I feel safe right now? If the answer is no, of course, remove yourself. But if the answer is, yeah, I feel pretty safe, then just drop. You can even close your eyes if nobody is around and just drop and then check. What am I feeling in my body right now? There is a great guy, Dr. Huberman. I don't know if you're available. Yes. Yeah. Listen to him all the time. Yeah, 1 of his snippets are about alcoholism and he talks a lot about, why and how we behave and why, like you say, the anxiety. After the drinking. So it's so many things out there. 20, 30 years ago, there wasn't this obvious Oh, you can just ride a wave and don't fight the anxiety, just surrender and let the wave come through and all that stuff. Back then I was holding on with a towel in my mouth screaming because I had no idea what to do with it. Yeah.

Lindsey: 46:59

Eva, how can somatic awareness then help somebody That's struggling with their relationship to alcohol

Eva: 47:06

first. Notice your triggers. When is it? You want to drink? Some of us just wake up. I chugged a pint before I opened my eyes, I needed that to get up to zero. So catch yourself. When are you drinking? And then if you can just wait 10 minutes. Don't say, I'm not going to drink just okay. Try. I really want to drink. I'm going to wait 10 minutes. I'm going to have a drink in 10 minutes, but right now I'm going to sit and write down how I feel. And then I'll have a drink, we stopped cold turkey. I don't know how you did it. If you can. Or however you do it, I'm not the judge of that, but if you can find your triggers, because most people I work with have 10, 20, 30 years of sobriety. Some are suicidal, some are homicidal, some, cause they have not learned how to recognize their triggers. That's all it is. And then do just what you did, Kelly. Look at it. Embrace it, acknowledge it, and it will shift all by itself. So recognize the trigger. Wow. Love that. It's a good reminder. Let's say I'll quit drinking in a month or something, but before then, I'm going to, every time I drink, I'm going to take 10 minutes, I'm going to do that, then I'll have a drink and see if I really still want it as badly as I did 10 minutes ago. More mindfulness.

Tracey: 48:30

I'm going to try that technique now, Ava, with sugar. I

Lindsey: 48:33

got a big glass of water. Now

Tracey: 48:37

I

Eva: 48:38

need to work on the sugar. Sugar, it really works. I've been off it now for 60 days and my daughter is off it. And to be honest, the first 30 days are the worst, definitely. But if you can, whatever your drug of choice is with sugar, just give 10 minutes and sit and you might get really angry, irritated. You might, screw this exercise. I'm just going to eat whatever you think. If you can put a timer on 10 minutes. Wow. And just sit with that. Call me after this. It's on me. Do a free session. I don't care, just so that I can teach you this because You connect with so many people, so if they can learn then it just spreads No, I think it's amazing. I think what you're sharing with us here is very powerful. So I think our listeners are very fortunate that you came on to share this with us. I feel very fortunate.

Lindsey: 49:31

Wow, Ava, where can people find you? Where can they connect with you or on social media? On social media, that's my weak spot.

Kelly: 49:43

What's your website?

Eva: 49:45

My website is evaangvert. com. E V A N G V E R T com. They can book a free Q and A. I'm more than willing to spread the news. It's wonderful to see people just to develop agency, to develop their own this is me. See what I mean? Yes. Yes.

Tracey: 50:09

Yeah. So powerful. That's the most amazing part I think about not drinking the message we try to share all the time is how much better your life is and how much better of a version of yourself you are because you really come into yourself as a true being. without hiding behind anything else.

Eva: 50:33

All that you have gained from not drinking, everything I have now, my sense of self, my children, my blah, blah, blah, all of it fits in one shot glass. Wow. Only need one glass. And then if it doesn't happen tomorrow, if it happens in a year, you will systematically lose it all. Wow.

Tracey: 50:55

Wow. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. This has been amazing. Great to meet you.

Eva: 51:02

You guys are amazing. Thank you. Oh, you're amazing. Yeah. You've And, yeah. Thank you so much for sharing your time and energy with us. You're an amazing inspiration at how old did you say you were just the way you look

Kelly: 51:19

five and 33 years without alcohol is amazing. That's crazy. Wow.

Tracey: 51:26

So thank you so much. We will share all your contact info, whatever we have with our listeners. Thanks to our listeners. You can find us at LAF Life Podcast on Instagram and in our Facebook community at LAF Life and on our new website too at www. laughlifepodcast. com. So check out the new website and to all our listeners. Thank you for listening. And until next time, keep laughing.

Kelly: 51:57

Thank you for listening. Please give us a five star rating like and subscribe, share on social media and tell your friends. We love getting your feedback and ideas of what you'd like to hear on upcoming episodes of the laugh life podcast. If you yourself are living alcohol free and want to share your story here, please reach out.